Ability scores.

[Bryon_Soulweaver]

After the third session the players and I decided that ability scores would not work with this, so we (one of the players) came up with this.

• Str
• Dex
• Con
• Int
• Wis
• Cha
• Bea
• Luc

They would get 11 starting points. Humans get no adjustments, 11 point for elfs with a +1 on beauty and a -1 on dexerity, 11 points for dwarfs with +2 on strength and -1 on beauty and intelligence, gmones get 11 points and +1 on intelligence and -1 on con(brain not working), halfling get the same as gnomes, half-orcs get the same as dwarfs and half-elfs get the same and humans.

The stats all start on 0, being average. The max each of these abilities can go for are 5 and negative 3 at minimum; and can get higher every three levels, and they still work like normal stats.




PS: And depending on what luck each character has, depends on what treasure, encounters, attention, ect. they might get.

 

[GreatLemur]

They would get 11 starting points. Humans get no adjustments, 11 point for elfs with a +1 on beauty and a -1 on dexerity, 11 points for dwarfs with +2 on strength and -1 on beauty and intelligence, gmones get 11 points and +1 on intelligence and -1 on con(brain not working), halfling get the same as gnomes, half-orcs get the same as dwarfs and half-elfs get the same and humans.

And here's where we come to the problem with the old Comliness score that werk mentioned: Dwarves are less attractive than elves? According to who, exactly? Should the numbers still work that way when dealing with other dwarves? What about with wholly non-humanoid beings like dragons and thri-kreen? Do they think elves are prettier?

I don't think there's a lot of sense in making game stats for something as completely subjective as physical beauty.

 

[ARandomGod]

Wisdom gives willpower..

Charisma is a personality factor... you could say, how strong an aura of personality you have.
And it is discribed as Beauty.. (outer amoung others), but is indeed used as Inner beauty.

You say wisdom gives willpower. But where, other than the actual save, does the stat in 3.X currently labled "wisdom" actually reflect willpower? As in the power of your will over yourself or over others?

As far as I can see it's pretty much all about perception. With, as I stated, the exception of that save. However in a conversation wherein I express an opinion about potentially moving the save because the stat it's attached to doesn't reflect what the save does, you can't say that the stat does reflect it because the save is there, that's just circular reasoning.

You could say it's in the divine spellcasting, but that could just as easily be assigned to perception. Divine casters percieve ways to tap into power that's being offered for free to those who would take it. (Clerics/druids, obvisouly).

Of course, the same could be said about spontanious arcane casting, so the fact that it's currently attributed to attributing his force of will to express magic can be dismissed as flavor text. It could just as easily be him charming the magic with his "inner beauty".

However. What else is charisma attached to? Well, not much. My main arguement there was to use the actual flavor text as is and therefore boost a horrifically weak stat (charisma) at the expense of an overpowered one (Dex)

Cha = Bluff. A skill about lying. Not really "inner beauty" in my mind. But I guess it could be... in some people's minds... However it fits willpower and force of will very nicely. You will believe me because
<I TELL YOU TO>

Diplomacy = Easily inner beauty. A little more is generally needed, but allowing your inner beauty to shine forth can win a lot of diplomatic battles. Well, really, in anything other than politics, where they don't so much CARE about your beauty as their own agenda. Willpower fits better there IMO as well. You will listen to my point of view, and agree with it, because I'm mentally stronger than you are.

Disguise. Well... heh. "Inner beauty" shining through is actually going to hurt you there. Only willpower makes any sense of those two options.

Gather information. Willpower or inner beauty works ok here. I suggest you use both if applicable.

Intimidate: Well. Inner beauty is gonna suck for this one. "Aww, he won't HURT me, he's a good person. We Loves Him". That's just not so intimidating as the thought of someone's willpower crushing your mind while his tongs crush your thumbnails.

Perform. Once again either way. A good inner beauty and people will like you no matter how you do. A good willpower will help people to percieve you the way you want them to. Technically I think the second is a better performance. But people get by on looks/inner beauty often enough.

And the Kicker. Use Magic Device.
Inner beauty? What does a magic item care?
Willpower? You'll FORCE it to care.

OK. There's "charisma" being the basis for willpower. Where, exactly, does "wisdom" show any real willpower at all? Everything "wisdom" does is clearly perception, whith the possible exception of healing and survival... those could be attributed somewhere other than perception, but easily fit under perception as well.

 

[ARandomGod]

From another thread with a similiar feel on the topic I'm expressing:

Some folks might take issue with the idea of Clerical spellcasting being based on Perception, but I actually think it makes more sense than Wisdom ever did: The new stat more explicitly represents openness and sensitivity to subtle external phenomena, and that can mean spiritual contact just as easily as it means Spot checks.

I like the way he put that, to represend perception as a divine spellcasting stat.