Abortion

[Janx]

The "Puritan work ethic" has had an unfortunate side effect. If you push the message that work = financial success too strongly, you reinforce poverty = lazy by implication. It can be quite a chore getting through to people that luck and opportunity (and other advantages) have a lot to do with success as well.

Thats probably the source of the trouble. I know recall one of the later Freakonomics stories was about how in Germany way back during Martin Luther (the original) times, they found stats that indicated the protestants were more productive than the catholics.

So I'm guessing there was some kind of culture of work super hard going on. With the side effect as you noted of what the inverse implies.

This is also probably a factor why some rich millionaires will brag about working hard all their life, 80+ work weeks and tell everyone else they are lazy.

 

[Umbran]

Thats probably the source of the trouble. I know recall one of the later Freakonomics stories was about how in Germany way back during Martin Luther (the original) times, they found stats that indicated the protestants were more productive than the catholics.

So I'm guessing there was some kind of culture of work super hard going on. With the side effect as you noted of what the inverse implies.

And, to be fair, when most of the world is based upon the action of human labor, it pretty much is true - human effort is absolutely required for success.

But once you have internal combustion engines and computers, and your society becomes efficient enough at creating real wealth, then you have a problem. You can have more labor force available than you need. Then, your labor or personal qualities may never be sufficient to gain you success, because there simply isn't a place for you.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

But it is when it comes to women and pregnancy.

No, risk of harm is ALWAYS a factor.

Those who want to force women to complete their pregnancies disregard the risk they are taking and if they are taking these risks volontarely.

Playing mind reader again? If so, you might want it consider another game, since you're astonishingly bad at it.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And, to be fair, when most of the world is based upon the action of human labor, it pretty much is true - human effort is absolutely required for success.

But once you have internal combustion engines and computers, and your society becomes efficient enough at creating real wealth, then you have a problem. You can have more labor force available than you need. Then, your labor or personal qualities may never be sufficient to gain you success, because there simply isn't a place for you.

Tangenting off of that: we are starting to see claims that the newest labor-saving, modular, programmable robots slated for production are actually cheaper than some of the cheapest foreign labor out there, over the course of the useful life of the machine. If they are correct, then we're at the cusp of the transition to a society envisioned by some Sci-Fi writers in which machines do most/all work, and man is left to find his own purpose.

The problem is, of course, nobody ever thinks about the problems of the transitional period. What happens to society as the hundreds of thousands and of workers losing their jobs to automation today become hundreds of millions? It probably won't be pretty.

 

[Umbran]

The problem is, of course, nobody ever thinks about the problems of the transitional period. What happens to society as the hundreds of thousands and of workers losing their jobs to automation today become hundreds of millions? It probably won't be pretty.

It can be fine, if sharing the wealth is found to be acceptable. The question is whether we can break the bonds of mental habits quickly enough.

Though, to be honest, I am not really worried. We have other fish we'll need to fry first, though it would be a topic for another thread.

 

[bone_naga]

I'm not a fan of abortion, but I also don't think it should be banned in cases of rape or incest. I think the SCOTUS ruling was a fair compromise on the matter, and regardless of what I think the issue is more or less settled. Regardless of your views, I think focusing on issues that can actually be changed are more important than looking for loopholes to create backdoor bans.

I also think that the best way to prevent abortions is to prevent unwanted pregnancies, which puts me at odds with the more extreme members of the pro-life crowd, many of whom are also against birth control and sex education.

 

[MechaPilot]

My opinion on abortion is essentially the same opinion I have about drugs, suicide, tattoos, piercings, organ donation, and sex toys: "It's my body, don't tell me what I can do to it, put into it, or take out of it."

 

[Janx]

I'm not a fan of abortion, but I also don't think it should be banned in cases of rape or incest. I think the SCOTUS ruling was a fair compromise on the matter, and regardless of what I think the issue is more or less settled. Regardless of your views, I think focusing on issues that can actually be changed are more important than looking for loopholes to create backdoor bans.

I also think that the best way to prevent abortions is to prevent unwanted pregnancies, which puts me at odds with the more extreme members of the pro-life crowd, many of whom are also against birth control and sex education.

I think that's a fair position to have. You don't need to ban abortion if you find ways to make it not needed.

I am appalled at the extremist end, because their "we so pure, never have sex" airs they put on is contradictory to the stats.

 

[bone_naga]

I am appalled at the extremist end, because their "we so pure, never have sex" airs they put on is contradictory to the stats.

Yeah, that really turned me off to the whole pro-life movement, even though some of them don't actually take it to that level.

 

[Kramodlog]

Playing mind reader again?

Just reality. If women are forced to stay pregnant, then they take involontary risks to their health and life. Plain and simple.