About Death and Resurrection

[Reynard]

It didn't look like a rule to me. As Cadfan posted, it is an informal way of saying:
"This is what usually happens".

Like:
If a character in D&D 3.5 dies at 3rd level, the player rolls up a new character.
If a character in D&D 3.5 dies at 11h level, the parties Druid reincarnates him, or their Cleric will raise him, or the party gets an NPC Cleric to do it.
If a character in D&D 3.5 dies at 17th level, the parties Cleric casts True Ressourection to revive him.

That's certainly not what has to happen. The RAW supports it, but there is nothing saying that the DM is generous and lets some random Cleric raise the 3rd level character, or that the player of the dead 11th level character decides not to have his character raised (or there are no Druid/Clerics available at the moment) and instead rolls up a new one.

So the fact that the rather direct statement is under a section about how 4E differs from 3E and a sub-heading of how death, specifically, differs from 3E is some sort of red herring?

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

I'd actually prefer it if ressurection was as comparatively easy in 4E as in 3E. I mean, I've made it a point in Urbis that it's often more effective to ruin the finances, resources, and reputations of villains rather than simply killing them, because if they are killed they will merely raised again by their allies and flunkies. But if you make sure they have no one left to call upon, you can reduce or neutralize the threat they represent for much longer.

But let's see how the final rules will be written up on this issue.

 

[Lizard]

Something I just noticed that has probably already been discussed to death, but I missed: characters below 11th level (heroic tier) cannot be brought back to life.

That's... interesting and, frankly, unexpected.

Hell, it's completely blowing my cynicism about the game.

I was dead certain that, in the interest of More Fun, resurrection would be cheap and easy in 4e -- after all, if not being able to participate in diplomacy or trap disarming is No Fun, then being dead is Ultimate No Fun -- you can't do ANYTHING. I figured there'd be a daily Cleric spell called 'Day of Life', or the like, which would bring back someone for a day, so you give up other, more useful, daily spells until you can get poor dead Fred to a high-level Cleric for a full rez.

Where did you read that Heroic characters could not come back to life?

 

[Vayden]

Even if it is "against the rules" for a heroic character to come back, it'll still happen if the DM/group wants it to. One of the WotC playtest reports mentioned a 2nd level character coming back from the dead "due to a ring stolen from the Sea-Kings".

 

[Reynard]

Even if it is "against the rules" for a heroic character to come back, it'll still happen if the DM/group wants it to. One of the WotC playtest reports mentioned a 2nd level character coming back from the dead "due to a ring stolen from the Sea-Kings".

Heh. Killing two rules with one stone.

 

[The_Pugilist]

Where did you read that Heroic characters could not come back to life?

I think I PM'ed you about this over on rpg.net last week or so. It is from Worlds and Monsters and is quoted in this thread.

 

[Lizard]

I think I PM'ed you about this over on rpg.net last week or so. It is from Worlds and Monsters and is quoted in this thread.

Right, I took that to mean "It will be difficult" not "It will be impossible by the 'laws of physics' of the world." It's currently DIFFICULT to rez low level PCs, but if your uncle is the high priest of Thor, you've got it made.

I appreciate the difficulty of resurrection, but dislike the idea that something magical happens between 10th and 11th level that changes all the rules. We now have several points of data that the 'tiers' are much more firm mechanical walls than they are convenient groupings of power.

 

[Nymrohd]

By the way the Shadowfell entry in W&M seems to be clear about making adventures to find the lost souls of the dead possible in 4E.

 

[Lizard]

Even if it is "against the rules" for a heroic character to come back, it'll still happen if the DM/group wants it to. One of the WotC playtest reports mentioned a 2nd level character coming back from the dead "due to a ring stolen from the Sea-Kings".

Wouldn't work on him, he's not 11th level. Unless it's an "artifact". Which, uh, despite being a thing of much greater power than a normal ring, works on "lesser" beings.

Magic. Sure is wonky, huh?

Still, soooo glad we won't have cheap&easy resurrection in 4e. Maybe in 5e.

"Remember in 4e when you could sometimes DIE? We've fixed that!"

(I always thought it would be cool if raising someone cost OTHER people XP, like, say, 200 XP/level of the dead character, which had to be paid for voluntarily. So the party would need to 'chip in' their XP to raise their buddy...or just let him rot.)

 

[HP Dreadnought]

So the fact that the rather direct statement is under a section about how 4E differs from 3E and a sub-heading of how death, specifically, differs from 3E is some sort of red herring?

I can't believe you're trying to debate the interpretation of the RAW, when the RAW haven't even been published yet!

We had no idea what the RULES are governing death. So the supposition that its a resource constraint issue versus a rule prohibition is equally valid.

Unless you're going to try to argue that the preview books constitute rules that must be considered even after the first three core books are published? Good luck with that.

Furthermore, even if it explicitly stated that there was a rule against raising Heroic tier characters, there's absolutely no guarantee that it won't have been changed between the preview books and the actual release.