About drow...shouldn't they have an int bonus?

[WarlockLord]

The elf article that came out recently implied that drow have +2 dex, +2 cha. In my view, there should be an int bonus in there somewhere. Here's why:
1) Strong tradition of wizardry: Not much to be said here, but many of the male drow in FR are wizards. Wizards need intelligence, therefore...

2)Backstabbing culture: As we know it, the drow are still the same backstabbing old buddies. So why, oh why, wouldn't natural selection favor the more intelligent ones, who are able to plot and counterplot better than the likeable moron down the street?

3) They had it in 3.5. Not a strong reason, but as long as their culture is being kept much the same...

Can someone answer this? Anyone from WoTC able to shed light on this? I know we don't absolutely know they don't, but it doesn't look good.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

The elf article that came out recently implied that drow have +2 dex, +2 cha. In my view, there should be an int bonus in there somewhere. Here's why:
1) Strong tradition of wizardry: Not much to be said here, but many of the male drow in FR are wizards. Wizards need intelligence, therefore...

2)Backstabbing culture: As we know it, the drow are still the same backstabbing old buddies. So why, oh why, wouldn't natural selection favor the more intelligent ones, who are able to plot and counterplot better than the likeable moron down the street?

3) They had it in 3.5. Not a strong reason, but as long as their culture is being kept much the same...

Can someone answer this? Anyone from WoTC able to shed light on this? I know we don't absolutely know they don't, but it doesn't look good.

I wonder if they'll get a Wisdom bonus, seeing how virtually every female drow seems like she's a cleric. (What happens to the poor female born with Wisdom 10?)

I figure WotC will pay attention to that (they did with elves).

Someone clue me in... drow are going to be a "monster" race outside of FR, right? Then it's probably not too unbalancing to give them an Int bonus. (Seeing how they're willing to give elves a bonus to Wisdom, it seems they found a way to keep mental stat bonuses from being overpowering.)

 

[Incenjucar]

Drow have been depicted as being laughably stupid (I mean, come on, their entire culture), and absolutely godlike (I mean, come on, Drizzt).

You're not really going to a good evidence-based argument on their stats.

 

[perchy]

Well as you've pointed out, elves are +2Dex, +2Wis

Eladrin are famous for being wizards and value learning, but are still elves, so +2Dex +2Int is a safe bet. (as in, you could put limbs on this bet)

So we have the wise elf, and the clever elf, so drow are rounding out the trinity with the charismatic elf.

Which is just perfect for an evil race, all the social activies are based off cha, hence being good liers and such..

To boil it down. all elves have +2 dex, they're frikken elves. Drow used to have +2 int and +2 cha, to make them equal in power with other elves, they need to lose one, we alrdy have smart elves, so +2Cha ftw.

Yes your now not as good at being a wizard, on the other hand you just gained two levels, so your better

 

[Ahglock]

skills like diplomacy are where cunning machinations are made, and that is chr based. Also by just re-working there magic to a more warlock style the charisma fits there as well.

 

[cthulhu_duck]

2)Backstabbing culture: As we know it, the drow are still the same backstabbing old buddies. So why, oh why, wouldn't natural selection favor the more intelligent ones, who are able to plot and counterplot better than the likeable moron down the street?

Because they can't manipulate as well or hide their true desires as well as the more charismatic ones in their society.

When it comes to backstabbing, the game is called Diplomacy. It's not about who is smart and who isn't - it's about who can manipulate and tell a convincing lie.

 

[WarlockLord]

Because they can't manipulate as well or hide their true desires as well as the more charismatic ones in their society.

When it comes to backstabbing, the game is called Diplomacy. It's not about who is smart and who isn't - it's about who can manipulate and tell a convincing lie.

True, but you need something to lie about. All the lying capabilities are used to further a plan of some sort, and I daresay most of the Machiavellian planners are both smart and manipulative. Elan from OOTS, although he has a high cha, can't plan for ****.

Why not give them the same ability bonuses they had in 3.5 (dex, int, cha) and give them a weaker special powers? We know darkness and levitation are feats, this leaves spell resistance (which I suspect is gone in 4e since it slows down the game, maybe a conditional defence bonus?), and dancing lights and faerie fire, both of which suck and could easily be dropped.

 

[xnrdcorex]

I think drows are being pushed into a more sorcerer(I know this class is out though) type role. They are fey now as well. So ranged-ray spells will use their dex, and chr based spell dcs will be their focus. At least, that's the impression I was left with after reading the preview book.

 

[Voss]

The elf article that came out recently implied that drow have +2 dex, +2 cha. In my view, there should be an int bonus in there somewhere. Here's why:
1) Strong tradition of wizardry: Not much to be said here, but many of the male drow in FR are wizards. Wizards need intelligence, therefore...

Therefore by this logic, none of the core races (except eladrins, I guess), should ever be wizards. Doesn't wash.

2)Backstabbing culture: As we know it, the drow are still the same backstabbing old buddies. So why, oh why, wouldn't natural selection favor the more intelligent ones, who are able to plot and counterplot better than the likeable moron down the street?

Honestly this is more of a reason for having an Int penalty. After all this time, not working out that cultures with more cooperation and less backstabbing are *more* successful seems the height of stupidity.

3) They had it in 3.5. Not a strong reason, but as long as their culture is being kept much the same...

Meh. Not a reason at all, with all the other racial changes kicking in.

 

[Umbran]

Why not give them the same ability bonuses they had in 3.5 (dex, int, cha) and give them a weaker special powers? We know darkness and levitation are feats, this leaves spell resistance (which I suspect is gone in 4e since it slows down the game, maybe a conditional defence bonus?), and dancing lights and faerie fire, both of which suck and could easily be dropped.

Um, if the special powers suck, and are easily dropped, then you're giving them the stat bonus in trade for something that's worth less than the stat bonus - this is not keeping them balanced. If you want to get something good, you need to give up something good, not something that sucks.

I can see eliminating the Intelligence bonus - the biggest part about backstabbing is not how good your plan is, but about how your enemy learns about it. It doesn't have to be the best plan in the world, so long as you can hide your intentions from your enemy until it is too late. The drow seem to operate more based on the element of surprise than anything else. And in social situations, that basically a matter of charisma.