About Implements...

[Rhanta]

It's me again. Uhm, this time it's about Implements.

I know what Implements are, but here's what's bugging me...

Can we use Implements to attack? (Rods, Staves and Wands)

Or are they just here for support?

 

[DracoSuave]

It's me again. Uhm, this time it's about Implements.

I know what Implements are, but here's what's bugging me...

Can we use Implements to attack? (Rods, Staves and Wands)

Or are they just here for support?

Implements are actually used to attack.

Basically, all powers that are used to attack are either Weapon, or Implement. Weapon powers must use weapons (obviously) but implement powers are not required to use implements.

That said, using an implement with a power allows you to use that implement's features, like properties, critical hit rating, powers, and most importantly, enhancement bonuses.

Non-magical implements generally don't do anything unless you're a wizard, but there are exceptions. Some implement types are also weapons or weapon groups, and you might have feats that boost those weapons. Most of those feats work fine if that weapon is used as an implement.

Basically, while an implement isn't needed to use implement powers, a magic implement is just as important for an implement user to have as a magic weapon is for a weapon user. They aren't just for show.

 

[Scalding]

Most implements are used for arcane, divine, or psionic attacks, which are often ranged, area, or close attacks. Some implements, such as daggers, can be used for melee attacks as well.

 

[fba827]

It's me again. Uhm, this time it's about Implements.

I know what Implements are, but here's what's bugging me...

Can we use Implements to attack? (Rods, Staves and Wands)

Or are they just here for support?

When you say "attack" do you mean physically hitting people with it?
[sblock]
Some implements (like a staff or dagger) can be used as wepons for hitting someone running by (making an opportunity attack, etc) or just for swinging if you felt like it (in 4e terms, this is a melee basic attack).


If you wanted to use one of the other implements (such as a rod or orb) as a weapon to make a basic attack, then your DM may allow you to use the implement as an improvised weapon. Such as stabbing someone in the eye with your wand, etc. Note that this is often a poor choice since you don't really get good bonuses to hit and the damage is rather weak as well. People who use implements are better off using the implement to power up their attacks, rather than trying to use it as a weapon to bash people.
[/sblock]

Or do you mean to use your attack powers?
[sblock]
Implements what the user channels his power through when attacking with a arcane spell, divine prayer, etc. The magical ones add bonuses and sometimes extra effects to the user's attack. Nonmagical implements are just for show.
Of course, implements are not required, a wizard can still cast a spell without a wand/staff/orb.
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[Rhanta]

@fba827: I mean, if we can use implements to attack (physically) without being houseruled. XD But you gave me both infos so I have extra info now. Thanks. XD

@Scalding: So there are implements that are weapons? (not wands, staves, rods, etc)

@DracoSuave: ahh, so Implements are actually used to attack. XD Thanks for the info.

 

[cdrcjsn]

Other than the staff, swordmages use any heavy or light blade as an implement, which means that any arcane class can do so by taking a feat.

Also, there are specific magic weapons that can be used as implements.

In terms of damage, weapon implements are actually better since you can spend feats (weapon focus, two weapon fighting) and acquire items (syberis shard of the mage) that will boost your spells.

 

[DracoSuave]

@Scalding: So there are implements that are weapons? (not wands, staves, rods, etc)

Implements that can be used as weapons are divided into three broad categories:

Magic Item Properties

Pact blades, 'songbows', Holy Avenger weapons, these are magic properties that can be given to a weapon, and they have the trait that they 'can be used as an implement for _____ powers' or 'count as a holy symbol.' This are weapons that can be used as implements in specific cases, mentioned with each item description.

Specific weapons

Sorcerers have daggers, and thus any dagger qualifies as a weapon in the case of the sorcerer, but also as an implement for the powers he uses. Any feat or bonus that applies to daggers or light blades work with his powers.

Weapon groups

Light blade, Heavy blade (for swordmages) and staff (for wizards, and many others) are also considered weapon groups, so multiple types of weapons are included in each. A kopesh counts as a swordmage implement because it belongs to the heavy blade weapon group, and a quarterstaff counts for a wizard because it belongs to the staff weapon group.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

@fba827: I mean, if we can use implements to attack (physically) without being houseruled. XD But you gave me both infos so I have extra info now. Thanks. XD

@Scalding: So there are implements that are weapons? (not wands, staves, rods, etc)

@DracoSuave: ahh, so Implements are actually used to attack. XD Thanks for the info.

Implements are exactly analogous to weapons. If you have a power with a weapon keyword you MAY use a weapon with it. You don't HAVE to, you can use a weapon based power without a weapon, but in that case it defaults to being an 'unarmed' attack. If you have an implement keyword power you MAY use an implement with it. You don't HAVE to, you can use an implement power with no implement at all.

There are some minor differences between the two types. A weapon attack (almost) always uses the "W" of the weapon to determine damage, implements don't have a "W" value, instead the power itself defines the damage dice. If you use a weapon power without a weapon then you simply use the unarmed "weapon" instead, which defines the W value as 1d4.

There are other differences:

1) All weapons, except "unarmed" have a proficiency bonus that is applied (unless you attack with a weapon you aren't proficient with). Implements don't have a proficiency bonus.

2) Different feats apply to weapons and implements. Weapon Expertise applies to weapon attacks using a weapon you have expertise with. Implement Expertise applies to implement attacks using an implement you have expertise with.

3) Some weapon attacks use missile weapons or "ranged" weapons, in those cases the weapon determines the range of the power for that attack. Implements don't have ranges, instead ranged implement powers have built-in ranges. There are some minor exceptions to this, it is possible for instance for a weapon power to have a fixed range and there are some bard (artificer as well I think) powers that can pick up the range of weapon they're used with.

As DS said there are weapons which can be used as implements. In those cases weapon oriented feats usually apply to the attack, like weapon focus even though its an implement keyword power. Various ways exist to make this happen, as DS already outlined. Staff implements also are usable as weapons (quarter staff), which works pretty much the same way.

There are a few other minor points. PHB3 introduced superior implements. These are non-magical implements that have enhanced properties. Implement users can use the Superior Implement Proficiency feat to allow use of these. There are a number of types, but they all enhance implement powers cast using them in some fashion. All of these work essentially the same way as normal implements.

As others have said, you probably can use an implement as an improvised weapon. In this case though its simply the same as using a rock or a stick. There's nothing special about it, you're just bashing the orc over the head with your orb or whatever. Its slightly better in some cases than an unarmed attack, but not much.