About spells that seem useless because of duration

[Apuglisi]

I love druids but i think they describe something and then they try to sell me a version quite different than what they describe...

Druids are supposed to be one with Nature...yet they can speak with animals for what? 1 min/lvl?!...that is ridiculous, at least to my eyes...

And it has nothing to do with the GM...I, as a player, feel quite dissapointed with that...
Hide from Animals lasts for 10min/lvl...So I can hide from them for quite a bit time but I need to be in a lucky day and find an animal quite in the mood to answer my questions quickly otherwise I will loose my spell...
To not mention that an animal has an intelligence quite different from mine wich makes it hard to believe that i can talk to them in 1 min as easily as I could talk to a sentient being...

What if I want or need a full report of activities in a forest and I need detailed descriptions? Arent these animals the eyes and ears of the druid?
Can you believe that a medium lvl druid would have to sacrifice several lvl 1 spells to be able to achieve that?

For me, as a player, is quite unreasonable and is one of the main reasons why I dont play a druid (being the class I love most).

So, I feel that Speak with Animal is one spell that seems useless....Thare are several spells like this one...

How do you deal with them?

Ale

PS: Please, try to stay in topic. Thx

 

[dvvega]

I seem to remember that in the original versions of D&D, the druid would gain the abiilty to speak with animals as a class ability.

You could always do that ... something akin to Gnomes speaking with burrowing animals. To limit abuse you could say that the druid should choose a home territory (forest, desert, etc) and the animals would be limited to that environment.

I don't think that's too overpowered.

As for the hiding from animals, Druids are not immune to animals finding them etc, so the duration on that spell is not something that should be removed. They have a good chance of avoiding hostilities (Animal Empathy takes care of that), but they shouldn't naturally be invisible to animals, or have the spell last for longer.

 

[Nightcloak]

I love druids but i think they describe something and then they try to sell me a version quite different than what they describe...

I agree with you on the druid and flavor issues. I have two suggestions:

1. I recommend the Greenbond class from Arcana Unearthed. Its class abilities allow you to see nature spirits, to commune with nature spirits, and even “sense” if anything major is going wrong in the area your character is at. If a group of humanoids starts whacking down trees in a large area then your greenbond has a good chance to sense the problem. I know this does not directly address your spell issues per se as you asked, but I do think these class abilities do address the flavor issues you have with the spells and put the druid archetype on track to where it should be. Although, if you don’t wish to use the AU magic system then you have some work to convert the class to the core magic system. If you or your DM does not want to mess with that, then perhaps…

2. Just ask your DM to allow your druid to cast non-combat “class theme” spells such as speak with animals for a duration of 10 min/level. If other classes can cast the spell, they get the ordinary version. It shouldn’t unbalance the game; non-druids get the normal spell and druids get the enhanced version as a perk. Some of the game designers have even admitted to not liking the philosophy behind 1 min/level spells as they encourage the “go, go, go” principle as characters rush from encounter to encounter so as to take advantage of the short lived spell before they lose it.


Either way. Make the class (or spell) you want! That's what the game is all about

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I don't see a problem. If a druid needs to discuss forest business with a squirrel for longer than 1 min/level, then he simply wildshapes into a squirrel. There you go. Hours of animal communication.

By 20th-level, Speak with Animals will allow a druid to speak with the squirrel in humanoid form for 20 minutes. At that point, I honestly can't imagine what that squirrel could possibly have to say for that long a period of time. It's not like the squirrel's going to be able to outline troop movements in the forest over the last month. Even at 5th-level, 5 minutes is more than enough time to ask "are there humanoids in the area?" and "what direction is their camp?"

I can understand your desire for a Dr. Doolittle kind of ability, but IME the druid already has more animal communication powers than he'll ever care to use in a standard game. So that's what the standard class reflects.

If you really want to be able to speak with animals all the time, it shouldn't be too hard to work with your DM for some kind of ability swap.

 

[Apuglisi]

As a druid , I think, you should be able to speak with animal since the start not having to wait to get animal shaping and that...

But is not just Speak with Animal...I gave that example because that is my fav class..

My main problem is with some utility spells that loose their utility because of duration...

Another example would be Ventriloquism....and there are more...
I feel that I am being guided to have to fill my char with combat spells and a few utility spells (those that someone considered you need to carry) but the spells i like I usually dont get them because they duration is short.

I know that with lvl they duration increase but i dont find reasonable to have to wait 5, 6, etc lvls to cast a spell lvl 1 to have an interesting duration...

Not sure If I am being clear or not about what worries me

 

[Lord Pendragon]

As a druid , I think, you should be able to speak with animal since the start not having to wait to get animal shaping and that...

Fair enough. Personally I disagree. I'm sure my paladin would love to Turn Undead at 1st-level, or cast Holy Sword. They're certainly abilities strongly tied to the flavor of the class. But my pally has to wait, because like all the classes, he gains abilities gradually. Same for the druid.

My main problem is with some utility spells that loose their utility because of duration...

This I can agree with. Invisibility used to be a good scouting spell. Cast it on the rogue and/or ranger, and let them go off and do their things. Now the spell's been reduced to a rogue combat buff. :/

I know that with lvl they duration increase but i dont find reasonable to have to wait 5, 6, etc lvls to cast a spell lvl 1 to have an interesting duration...

I agree. Some spells could use a minimum duration, so that they have a minimum usefulness even at low levels.

 

[Sejs]

Persistant spell.

Speak with Animal.

Get high enough level and you can chat with bunnies all day if you like.

 

[Storyteller01]

Seems like the developers are using a mindset more akin to Magic: the Gathering then actual role playing. Then again, the ads for 3.0 used to hype "getting D&D back into the dungeon..."

(Preventitive anti-snark): not bashing MtG in anyway. It's a good game. But the mechanics in 3.5 seem to be taking on a similar flavor...

 

[Victim]

Make a command word item for Speak with Animals.

 

[Deset Gled]

This I can agree with. Invisibility used to be a good scouting spell. Cast it on the rogue and/or ranger, and let them go off and do their things. Now the spell's been reduced to a rogue combat buff. :/

I disagree in this case. Yeah, Invisibility used to be a great scouting spell. In fact, it used to be *the* scouting spell. What reason was there for a rogue or ranger to take hide as a skill when this single 3rd level spell would take care of the problem entirely? Same thing with the Jump spell. The problem was the worst with wizards, who could just leave a few low level slots unprepared, and prepare quite literally any utility spell they needed later on in the day and completely negate a large variety of class abilities that other characters spent levels working on.

A small number of spells have durations a little on the low side these days, but overall I think the nerfs were for the best.