About the RPGA
- Thread starter Edena_of_Neith
- Start date
Ghostwind
First Post
The RPGA as a whole is a good organization with some great things going for it. However, like any organization, you will have both good and bad experiences from its members and from people who are curious about the organization.
I got involved in the organization about a year ago when I saw that Winter Fantasy was coming to Fort Wayne. After signing up and then pre-registering for several events, I tried to create a LG and LC character based on the rules (which seemed to be in a state of flux due to several changes at that time).
So what happened when I went to WF as a newbie? The folks at Living City were ready to hang Ryan Dancey at the gallows over proposed changes that were far from being official, the Living Greyhawk people seemd to be in the midsts of a huge internal political b*tchfest about all of the recent rule changes and how "their character was getting the wrong end of the shaft" and how badly written the scenarios were since it appeared several of them were written on the way to the Con. Finally, I found the most negative attitude one could find in regards to newbies. In fact, one person even went so far as to tell me that conventions were no place for people with first level characters, that only experienced characters had a right to play. Yeah, he actually told me this to my face when I was trying to get assigned to a table.
Endearing experience right? Actually it was, but not because of gaming. Rather, because Wotc was putting on several seminars on game design and whatnot, I got to meet and game with some incredible people from the professional industry with some of them now being good friends. If it wasn't for that, WF would have been quite sour.
So what has happened in that year since? Well, I have found that getting involved in LG to be next to impossible at the gaming store where it is held. I went there once on a gaming day and was told they could not accomodate me because they only run adventures higher than 5th level. Another time I went no one would even give me the time of day unless I was there to buy something. Fortunately, I met a group of gamers that play LC and even though I do not get much opportunity to play consistently, there is always a place at the table for me and my now 3rd level character. So there is light at the end of the tunnel after all.
The point of my rambling is that while the organization is a good thing and I do acknowledge that their members work their butts off (most of the time) at a Con, the attitudes of the membership leaves a lot to be desired.
There are obviously many things that could be done to improve how the system works but the biggest broken gear is the lack of new member support. Someone who is involved in the RPGA at the upper levels should listen to this because it was a complaint I heard at Winter Fantasy and again recently at PentaCon, "New members should have a very clear and concisely written manual explaining more than just how to create your character. There should be explanations about certs, the adventures, how best to determine the APL, and who to contact if you have questions." Member support, frankly, sucks on the email channels. I had to call the convention center myself in September to find out when this year's Winter Fantasy dates were because no one at the RPGA either knew or would respond to my inquiring on the dates (I had to give Ryan Dancey the dates because he didn't even know).
Guys, it is a good organization but it leaves a lot to be desired. One of the things I plan to do at this year's WF is make a point to check out Living Kalamar. From everything I have heard so far, they seem to be on the right track with their membership and the way they run things (most likely learning from the mistakes of others). I also want to take a look at Living Arcanis, because at last year's WF, those folks were having the time of their lives and it showed (especially at the auction). Which is how it should be all the time at any convention...
I got involved in the organization about a year ago when I saw that Winter Fantasy was coming to Fort Wayne. After signing up and then pre-registering for several events, I tried to create a LG and LC character based on the rules (which seemed to be in a state of flux due to several changes at that time).
So what happened when I went to WF as a newbie? The folks at Living City were ready to hang Ryan Dancey at the gallows over proposed changes that were far from being official, the Living Greyhawk people seemd to be in the midsts of a huge internal political b*tchfest about all of the recent rule changes and how "their character was getting the wrong end of the shaft" and how badly written the scenarios were since it appeared several of them were written on the way to the Con. Finally, I found the most negative attitude one could find in regards to newbies. In fact, one person even went so far as to tell me that conventions were no place for people with first level characters, that only experienced characters had a right to play. Yeah, he actually told me this to my face when I was trying to get assigned to a table.
Endearing experience right? Actually it was, but not because of gaming. Rather, because Wotc was putting on several seminars on game design and whatnot, I got to meet and game with some incredible people from the professional industry with some of them now being good friends. If it wasn't for that, WF would have been quite sour.
So what has happened in that year since? Well, I have found that getting involved in LG to be next to impossible at the gaming store where it is held. I went there once on a gaming day and was told they could not accomodate me because they only run adventures higher than 5th level. Another time I went no one would even give me the time of day unless I was there to buy something. Fortunately, I met a group of gamers that play LC and even though I do not get much opportunity to play consistently, there is always a place at the table for me and my now 3rd level character. So there is light at the end of the tunnel after all.
The point of my rambling is that while the organization is a good thing and I do acknowledge that their members work their butts off (most of the time) at a Con, the attitudes of the membership leaves a lot to be desired.
There are obviously many things that could be done to improve how the system works but the biggest broken gear is the lack of new member support. Someone who is involved in the RPGA at the upper levels should listen to this because it was a complaint I heard at Winter Fantasy and again recently at PentaCon, "New members should have a very clear and concisely written manual explaining more than just how to create your character. There should be explanations about certs, the adventures, how best to determine the APL, and who to contact if you have questions." Member support, frankly, sucks on the email channels. I had to call the convention center myself in September to find out when this year's Winter Fantasy dates were because no one at the RPGA either knew or would respond to my inquiring on the dates (I had to give Ryan Dancey the dates because he didn't even know).
Guys, it is a good organization but it leaves a lot to be desired. One of the things I plan to do at this year's WF is make a point to check out Living Kalamar. From everything I have heard so far, they seem to be on the right track with their membership and the way they run things (most likely learning from the mistakes of others). I also want to take a look at Living Arcanis, because at last year's WF, those folks were having the time of their lives and it showed (especially at the auction). Which is how it should be all the time at any convention...
Edena_of_Neith
First Post
You are asking the RPGA for perfection.
They are not perfect.
Nobody is perfect.
Every gaming group I was ever in had problems.
People, have problems.
Simply ask yourself: if you were doing this work in their place, could you do it better?
It is not a small affair, what the RPGA is doing. It is a major endeavor!
I have seen a lot of poor publicity for the RPGA.
It is easy to criticize.
Why not give them the benefit of the doubt?
They are not perfect.
Nobody is perfect.
Every gaming group I was ever in had problems.
People, have problems.
Simply ask yourself: if you were doing this work in their place, could you do it better?
It is not a small affair, what the RPGA is doing. It is a major endeavor!
I have seen a lot of poor publicity for the RPGA.
It is easy to criticize.
Why not give them the benefit of the doubt?
National Acrobat
First Post
I used to like the RPGA
I used to like the RPGA. I have been a member for many, many years. I have been to many conventions, and yes I have never had a problem getting into a game that I wanted to play. I had even played some home events that were well run and enjoyable. Then came my last experience at Patriot Games. Never had I ever been in this situation before. I came up with a solution for the quandry that myself and the other players were in, to get us out of a jam. Rather brilliant I thought, and the DM told us to sit tight, he'd be right back. Five minutes later he comes back and tells me that it is a great idea. Unfortunately, no where in the module is there a contigency or a solution to the problem that matches mine, so it isn't allowed and then he dictates to us what we should do and poof! makes us do it. That's it for me. DnD is about creativity and problem solving also and a good DM, whether it is a tournament or not should be ready to deal with the unexpected and to have it placed in the context of the adventure. I am steering clear of the RPGA events for awhile, I had a rather sour taste in my mouth after that happened.
I used to like the RPGA. I have been a member for many, many years. I have been to many conventions, and yes I have never had a problem getting into a game that I wanted to play. I had even played some home events that were well run and enjoyable. Then came my last experience at Patriot Games. Never had I ever been in this situation before. I came up with a solution for the quandry that myself and the other players were in, to get us out of a jam. Rather brilliant I thought, and the DM told us to sit tight, he'd be right back. Five minutes later he comes back and tells me that it is a great idea. Unfortunately, no where in the module is there a contigency or a solution to the problem that matches mine, so it isn't allowed and then he dictates to us what we should do and poof! makes us do it. That's it for me. DnD is about creativity and problem solving also and a good DM, whether it is a tournament or not should be ready to deal with the unexpected and to have it placed in the context of the adventure. I am steering clear of the RPGA events for awhile, I had a rather sour taste in my mouth after that happened.
Tsyr
Explorer
Edena_of_Neith said:
If you will look, alot of the people who critizise the RPGA have given it the benefit of the doubt, stuck with it, and still finaly decided "enough is enough".
I'm one of them.
But I'll agree with Dante: I don't hold this against the RPGA. The RPGA is a great concept, and you can get some really good experiences out of it. But I've had far more really bad experiences than really good ones (Lots of neutral experiences)... I finaly just decided it wasn't worth it anymore.
Giving someone/thing the benefit of the doubt doesn't mean that you can never find fault in it.
National Acrobat
First Post
Tsyr said:
I agree 100% with this, and have had this opinion for awhile. My aforementioned experience at my last con was the proverbial 'straw that broke the camel's back' so to speak. I had chosen to ignore the little things because I had always had fun at the games.
Bagpuss
Legend
Edena_of_Neith said:
If by benefit of the doubt you mean spend money on membership only to have, virtually the whole membership package you signed up to disappear.
IE: I signed up to Polyhedron and Living Greyhawk and now have neither delivered. Without EVER getting an explanation in the post from the RPGA or being told it was even going to happen.
The only reason I knew that Living Greyhawk and Polyhedron were going was because of what I heard on the internet, I was never contacted via post. I have had one letter from the RPGA since this and it was just to invite me to GenCon UK a couple of weeks before the actual event.
In the past I have turned up to play (as a player) in games only to find out they were so short of GM's that I had to step in to help GM at five minutes notice. Even when I've signed up to GM games well in advance of the tournament I've only ever recieved the modules on the day I arrived.
So yes it is easy to criticize the RPGA.
Thats not to say I haven't had good games at conventions but I have seen better organised conventions where the RPGA was not involved.
Ghostwind
First Post
Perfection? Hardly...
No, I don't believe anyone here is asking for perfection. For the most part, everyone here supports the idea and organization of the RPGA. However, the criticisms raised are legitimate problems within the organization that need to be addressed.
Yes, the RPGA has troubling finding and recruiting good judges. Why not give them an incentive to improve their techniques and skills other than simply saying "you get into the Con for free"?
Yes, many times the quality of the scenarios are lacking in terms of proper game mechanics and plot/story (Living City, for example). Again, come up with an incentive that rewards the better writers and yet encourages folks to at least make an attempt to write a good scenario. There are a huge number of very talented people capable of writing who have never had anything published before (I know because I see it with the submissions I receive for my magazine and contests).
The overall attitude of gamers at cons is positive but a few bad apples can spoil it for a person, as myself and others have pointed out. To simply brush our comments aside as demanding perfection is as bad as refusing to see that there are problems within the organization that need to at least be acknowledged that they exist.
The RPGA is not perfect, nor do we expect it to be. But we do expect to see efforts for continual improvement and betterment of the organization. Edena, it's great that you have such a positive experience with no problems, but giving what folks have posted here, you could be the exception rather than the norm. To imply that the RPGA itself can do no wrong is the equivalent to wearing blinders that only allow you to see directly in front of you and not what is going on all around. You are coming across (whether it is your intent or not) as blindly defending the RPGA from its critics without hearing what we are saying. The facts are there have been people turned away at cons and local gatherings, there are unhappy gamers with bad experiences, and there are gamers who have difficulty even finding a RPGA gaming group. While something may not be broken here, there certainly is evidence of wear and tear.
The RPGA is a good organization, but there is a lot of room for improvement and as long as they recognize this and move in a forward direction, I think everyone will at least support their vision, if not the organization directly...
[edited for spelling]
No, I don't believe anyone here is asking for perfection. For the most part, everyone here supports the idea and organization of the RPGA. However, the criticisms raised are legitimate problems within the organization that need to be addressed.
Yes, the RPGA has troubling finding and recruiting good judges. Why not give them an incentive to improve their techniques and skills other than simply saying "you get into the Con for free"?
Yes, many times the quality of the scenarios are lacking in terms of proper game mechanics and plot/story (Living City, for example). Again, come up with an incentive that rewards the better writers and yet encourages folks to at least make an attempt to write a good scenario. There are a huge number of very talented people capable of writing who have never had anything published before (I know because I see it with the submissions I receive for my magazine and contests).
The overall attitude of gamers at cons is positive but a few bad apples can spoil it for a person, as myself and others have pointed out. To simply brush our comments aside as demanding perfection is as bad as refusing to see that there are problems within the organization that need to at least be acknowledged that they exist.
The RPGA is not perfect, nor do we expect it to be. But we do expect to see efforts for continual improvement and betterment of the organization. Edena, it's great that you have such a positive experience with no problems, but giving what folks have posted here, you could be the exception rather than the norm. To imply that the RPGA itself can do no wrong is the equivalent to wearing blinders that only allow you to see directly in front of you and not what is going on all around. You are coming across (whether it is your intent or not) as blindly defending the RPGA from its critics without hearing what we are saying. The facts are there have been people turned away at cons and local gatherings, there are unhappy gamers with bad experiences, and there are gamers who have difficulty even finding a RPGA gaming group. While something may not be broken here, there certainly is evidence of wear and tear.
The RPGA is a good organization, but there is a lot of room for improvement and as long as they recognize this and move in a forward direction, I think everyone will at least support their vision, if not the organization directly...
[edited for spelling]
Last edited:
Katerek
Iconic Gnoll
I am glad to see that I am not the only one that has had these experiences.
Many of you put into phrase things that I agree with but couldn't/didn't necessarily point out.
I do want to say one thing though.
When I lambast the RPGA, I am doing it with one goal in mind. So that it will get better. I have been trying to get the attention of the RPGA High Commander (or whoever) that there are SERIOUS problems with the organization as a whole for over seven years now. Everytime I do I get countered by someone who apparently has only met the members of the RPGA who can lay golden eggs and exhale thousand dollar bills.
This is cool an all, and I am tickled pink that there are people who have had positive experiences.
They should STILL acknowledge their poor business practices as problems that reside within the human element of the organization and work to relieve those problems. Time and time again I have seen these blanket statements and excuses from the RPGA covering the most recent publishing/membership blunder. Why not just find the source of the problem and remove it?
As a membership based organization the problems lie somewhere within the members themselves.
I am not saying that ALL members of the RPGA are boobs or any such thing, but I am saying that somewhere there are multiple someones screwing it up for hundreds of others.
To deny this is to play the ostrich.
Quit acting as if criticism of the RPGA is something that needs to be defended. When a complaint is brought to light, it should be THOROUGHLY investigated on a individual level and dealt with in a fortright manner. It should not be defended against. All that does is serve to aggravated the offended party even more. When someone has had a negative experience and thus a complaint, there is nothing you can say to convince them that it DIDN'T happen or that it was a once in a lifetime event.
As most people will wait for more than one occurance before issuing a complaint the very nature of human tenacity rules out the once in a lifetime event theory.
Also, the worst thing you can do is ignore the problem. I think we have proved time and again that this will never work. It doesn't work with criminal activity, it doesn't work with disease, and it most certainly doesn't work with regards to the customer service department.
What the RPGA NEEDS, and this of course is just my opinion, is a management structure that is actually qualified to run a large organization that requires this much record keeping.
And I dont want to hear the volunteer argument about how they are saints and we should all send them our first born children for gracing us with their presence.
Volunteer work is grand, and I recognize that many involved in the RPGA are volunteers. Sometimes volunteers need to be turned away, or better ones sought after. If you do not think that this is true, I urge each of you to get involved with the Red Cross or any other local out reach program. Just because someone volunteers doesn't mean you have to accept them.
Many of you put into phrase things that I agree with but couldn't/didn't necessarily point out.
I do want to say one thing though.
When I lambast the RPGA, I am doing it with one goal in mind. So that it will get better. I have been trying to get the attention of the RPGA High Commander (or whoever) that there are SERIOUS problems with the organization as a whole for over seven years now. Everytime I do I get countered by someone who apparently has only met the members of the RPGA who can lay golden eggs and exhale thousand dollar bills.
This is cool an all, and I am tickled pink that there are people who have had positive experiences.
They should STILL acknowledge their poor business practices as problems that reside within the human element of the organization and work to relieve those problems. Time and time again I have seen these blanket statements and excuses from the RPGA covering the most recent publishing/membership blunder. Why not just find the source of the problem and remove it?
As a membership based organization the problems lie somewhere within the members themselves.
I am not saying that ALL members of the RPGA are boobs or any such thing, but I am saying that somewhere there are multiple someones screwing it up for hundreds of others.
To deny this is to play the ostrich.
Quit acting as if criticism of the RPGA is something that needs to be defended. When a complaint is brought to light, it should be THOROUGHLY investigated on a individual level and dealt with in a fortright manner. It should not be defended against. All that does is serve to aggravated the offended party even more. When someone has had a negative experience and thus a complaint, there is nothing you can say to convince them that it DIDN'T happen or that it was a once in a lifetime event.
As most people will wait for more than one occurance before issuing a complaint the very nature of human tenacity rules out the once in a lifetime event theory.
Also, the worst thing you can do is ignore the problem. I think we have proved time and again that this will never work. It doesn't work with criminal activity, it doesn't work with disease, and it most certainly doesn't work with regards to the customer service department.
What the RPGA NEEDS, and this of course is just my opinion, is a management structure that is actually qualified to run a large organization that requires this much record keeping.
And I dont want to hear the volunteer argument about how they are saints and we should all send them our first born children for gracing us with their presence.
Volunteer work is grand, and I recognize that many involved in the RPGA are volunteers. Sometimes volunteers need to be turned away, or better ones sought after. If you do not think that this is true, I urge each of you to get involved with the Red Cross or any other local out reach program. Just because someone volunteers doesn't mean you have to accept them.
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