D&D 5E Abuse Guidance even more with this one weird trick!

[BoldItalic]

I am going into a dangerous area. Guidance on me to help me with something that might come up - none of us know what. Can I roll the guidance die when I cast it, or not? That's the question.

Yes, that's the right question. I would rule "no" - wait until you have an ability roll to add 1d4 to.

Just as you wait until you make a specific attack to made an attack roll, or wait until there is something specific to save against to made a saving throw roll, so you wait until there is a specific ability check to seek Guidance on, to make the Guidance roll.

You have the reassurance that, if sometime in the next minute you have to make an ability roll and it looks marginal, you will be able to add a few points hoping to tip the balance. You won't know exactly how many points until you attempt the action and roll the die, but you know it will be in the 1-4 range. If you are confident that the outcome of one ability roll is clear-cut, you have the option of not rolling the d4 this time and saving it in case you have to make another ability roll later that same minute.

That's the way I read the spell description.

 

[Mistwell]

Yes, that's the right question. I would rule "no" - wait until you have an ability roll to add 1d4 to.

Just as you wait until you make a specific attack to made an attack roll

Different. This is a roll that can be made before or after a check, and it's something that's on you for an entire minute, and it's your choice to trigger it and when.

You won't know exactly how many points until you attempt the action and roll the die, but you know it will be in the 1-4 range. If you are confident that the outcome of one ability roll is clear-cut, you have the option of not rolling the d4 this time and saving it in case you have to make another ability roll later that same minute.

That doesn't seem to jive with the option to roll prior to an ability check.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Giving me a forge-like answer is just about always unpersuasive. I am surprised you didn't use the phrase "fictional positioning". Can you re-phrase in plain gaming language?

First, make a Guidance roll to help you understand the Forge jargon.

 

[BoldItalic]

Different. This is a roll that can be made before or after a check, and it's something that's on you for an entire minute, and it's your choice to trigger it and when.

Yes, it's your choice when to trigger the roll - before or after the check you decide to apply it to.

That doesn't seem to jive with the option to roll prior to an ability check.

I think it does, you think it doesn't. That's okay, we're both right.

 

[iserith]

Giving me a forge-like answer is just about always unpersuasive. I am surprised you didn't use the phrase "fictional positioning". Can you re-phrase in plain gaming language?

This isn't Forge waffle. It's paraphrased from the Basic Rules, pages 3 and 58.

 

[iserith]

The way we play it at our table, if a character looks about to engage in a task the players think might have an uncertain outcome, that character either seeks guidance or it is offered to him or her. For example, "I'm going to carefully search this door for traps. Anything in your good book about this sort of thing, cleric?" The players, however, never know with certainty whether a given action will require an ability check. If there is, the die is generally rolled after the ability check (if at all), especially since I share the DC and stakes before the roll with the players.

For those who do it differently, out of curiosity: Is it normal in your game for players to ask to make ability checks e.g. "I want to make a Perception check to search the door."

 

[Coredump]

I am going into a dangerous area. Guidance on me to help me with something that might come up - none of us know what. Can I roll the guidance die when I cast it, or not? That's the question.

Ah, I get your question now....

I say no. This is not like Portent where you roll a die and save it until needed. This spell allows you to roll a die and add it to an ability check. To my reading, that requires there to be an ability check to add it to before you are allowed to roll it. In order for there to be an ability check, the PC needs to commit to an action.

PC: I want to sneak up on the guard.
DM: okay, he isn't paying attention, but you still need to make a Dex(Stealth) check for me.
(Now there is an ability check, so you may 'trigger' guidance if you want)
PC now has the option of rolling the D4, and then the D20; or can roll the D20 and then decide to roll the D4 or not. But once you have commited to sneaking up on the guard, you are rolling the D20.