"Accident of Math"???

[Sir Brennen]

It's not a conan style ALALALALALALALALA sword swining over the head type thing...

Isn't that Xena style?

 

[Nifft]

Maybe thats it.. That's the issue I have with this... The rogue isn't the combat initiator.. he's the clean up guy... The tank gets out there cracks off a hit, and then the rogue should stick it with the final stab to the gut. It's what sneak attack, to me at least, is all about...

I wonder if 4e's "bloodied" and other combat conditions will have some applicability to characters of this type. Like, you deal no special damage to an undamaged foe, but you deal +2d6 to a "bloodied" foe.

That'd be cool.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Scribble]

At low levels, monster damage is too high for any PC. The rogue is a convenient example, because the Ogre can take him down in one hit.

At high levels, the bonuses to hit are all over the place, so setting a "fair" AC is very hard.

Cheers!

Hrmm maybe I'm weird... I've just never had a problem with the monsters out classing the PCs... usually it;'s the other way around...

 

[Scribble]

Isn't that Xena style?

Depends on what part of the mouth you use to make the noise, and also what pitch...

Use the front... alalalalalala with a high pitch it's zena...

Use the back and a lower pitch and it's conan. (the l is pronounced kind of like a Y)

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Of course, if by some chance you are a member of WOTC's marketing department, then I stand behind what I said 100%: stop demonizing old editions, it makes you look desparate.

Well, there's only two ways for them to go with the marketing: Pointing out the mistakes of the past or not. And frankly, not pointing out the mistakes seems to be a really weird marketing technique:

"The previous edition didn't have any problems at all. There's no reason for a new edition whatsoever except that we want you to give us money. At high levels 3.5e worked perfectly fine...so we thought we'd change it a bunch for the new edition. You know, just for the heck of it."

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I guess what I'm saying is that the "combat role" of a rogue (and other non-fighter types) is more expansive than having the numbers to go "toe-to-toe" in a melee with a fearsome creature. Balancing them based on this is much more interesting and leads to a richer, more varied play experience than making mere combat the cardinal upon which their effectiveness is measured.

Not really. I find that in most games I've played in, that "non-combat activities" which I define as anything outside of the initiative roll and the time you can't see monsters anymore take up at most a quarter of any gaming session.

In most dungeons, rogues will spend 10 minutes sneaking ahead, disarming the trap on the door, picking the lock and coming back to the party to say "Hey, there's monsters up ahead" then coming back so the party can move as a group into combat. Followed by an initiative roll and 1 and a half hours of straight combat: slugging it out with the enemies, moving into flanking positions, fireballs, etc.

Then, after the combat is done, the rogue makes 5 minutes worth of search rolls and disarming the trap on the chest, 5 more minutes of writing down the treasure, then scouts ahead (When people DO scout ahead. Everyone I've played with has said "NEVER split up the party. The rogue scouts 10 or 20 feet ahead, never more. Otherwise, when the enemy makes a spot check the rogue will be dead before the party can even move in to help.") for 10 minutes followed by another hour and a half combat.

And that's a 3 and a half hour session (probably 4 or 4 and a half by the time you get all your books on the table, get everyone to stop talking about their day, order food, etc) where 3 hours of it was combat. That's what happens almost every week at my game. I know that all of my players would love to know that they were EQUALLY good at killing the Ogre whether they were a rogue, cleric, wizard, or fighter. Just a difference in techniques.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

It's the designers' fault that the maths is at fault.

You mispelled math.

Typical arrogant Canadian...

 

[hong]

Huh? Canuckistan, a frigid, snow-bound, desolate landscape full of yaks, is nowhere near sunny Austria, the land down under.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Huh? Canuckistan, a frigid, snow-bound, desolate landscape full of yaks, is nowhere near sunny Austria, the land down under.

Ehh, they both have the Queen on their money. Can't be that different.

 

[Hairfoot]

You mispelled math.

"Mathematics" is plural, so the contraction is "maths". As for "obligate", and "protest" as a transitive verb... Bah! Humbug!