Accidental Survivors: the Modern Gaming Podcast

I enjoyed this quite a bit.

Bout time there was a modern podcast.

Edit: Having listened to the second podcast, you can probably imagine I have some reactions.

First, thanks for the many kind things you said about my book.

Second, my fingers were itching to type during the discussion of Blood and Fists. The end conclusion that you came to, I felt, were spot on, so I'm glad I waited for the discussion to hash out the various points before I typed this.

For instance, I did feel very early in the discussion, one of the participants (I think it was the 3rd gentlemen with Fraser and David, whose name escapes me) kept referring to martial arts as narrative.

I am glad in the end all three of you said you need both mechanics and narrative, and that even moved the conversation into a discussion of martial arts LARPs, which is exactly what you have if you use martial arts (or any other in game character ability) solely as narrative (which I felt one of the gentlemen was advocating).

I mean, sure narrative is important, but crunch is like the legs of a chair. The most beautiful chair in the world still needs legs, and those legs need to conform to mechanical requirements.

Now certainly, Blood and Fists has a LOT of mechanics in it, but sometimes I think people get into counting all the feats the book contains and consider it strictly a mechanical product. In fact if you look closely at the book, more than half of it is flavor text. I'd actually guess that about 60-65% of the book is flavor text and not crunch.

So to my mind, the book was designed more or less with the same idea the discussion settled on. The book adds a lot of crunch to the game. But if you look at the descriptions of the real world styles, and the simple fact that book uses real styles in the first place is primarily there as a function of character- of roleplaying.

To me, this is the reason for doing 100 or so hours of research on style history and flavor text alone for the book. It would have been MUCH easier not to do that research, but then you don't get the great character hooks that come from choosing Savate over Tae Kwon Do.

Mechanically those two styles might be very similar. The book gives you that mechanical foundation but then also gives you information that adds to your ability to role play your character and role play his martial arts styles.

Ok... done rambling now. I was honored that my book came up in the discussion, especially in such a favorable light and I found the different points of view fascinating.

Thanks again for the great podcast.

Chuck
 
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HalWhitewyrm said:
Which one, Fraser? I'm still looking for a new mic for my podcast.

I have to spring for one too, so I'll let you know what the consensus is. There were a bunch of pops and clicks I couldn't get rid of on the podcast and which Chris blames on my entry level headset. Personally, I blame it on Roudi. ;)

HalWhitewyrm said:
BTW, great show. It has been added to my disgustingly long list of podcasts. :)

I hear you, man. I used to read a book a week on my commutes. Now I'm just trying to catch up with all the podcasts.

Thanks for including us in something disgusting. It's where we belong . . . well, it's where Chris belongs.
 

Vigilance said:
Second, my fingers were itching to type during the discussion of Blood and Fists. The end conclusion that you came to, I felt, were spot on, so I'm glad I waited for the discussion to hash out the various points before I typed this.
My fault for not re-reading the book before I shot off my mouth. I actually haven't used it in a game, so for me, it was reading material. Thank someone that Roudi was there, who actually had working knowledge of the book!

Vigilance said:
For instance, I did feel very early in the discussion, one of the participants (I think it was the 3rd gentlemen with Fraser and David, whose name escapes me) kept referring to martial arts as narrative.

I am glad in the end all three of you said you need both mechanics and narrative, and that even moved the conversation into a discussion of martial arts LARPs, which is exactly what you have if you use martial arts (or any other in game character ability) solely as narrative (which I felt one of the gentlemen was advocating).
I was pushing that viewpoint as well, and I think it's valid. Certainly in a game like d20, which is relatively mechanics intensive, one needs a foundation of rules, but in something less . . . shall we say combat-oriented, describing the actions and moves of the character rather than using mechanics to replicate the effect, I believe, would be viable. I think that applies to a lot of situations, though, and it does require either 1) lots of prep or 2) lots of creativity.

Vigilance said:
I mean, sure narrative is important, but crunch is like the legs of a chair. The most beautiful chair in the world still needs legs, and those legs need to conform to mechanical requirements.
Again, for d20, I would absolutely agree, but for something like Project CHUPA over at DLI, I don't know if one absolutely needs further mechanics to create a martial arts character. If one is running a martial arts campaign, I would lean toward creating mechanics for that. The single martial artist in a campaign, though, I think could use a narrative approach and still achieve the goal of exciting, dynamic, butt-whopping action.

Vigilance said:
Now certainly, Blood and Fists has a LOT of mechanics in it, but sometimes I think people get into counting all the feats the book contains and consider it strictly a mechanical product. In fact if you look closely at the book, more than half of it is flavor text. I'd actually guess that about 60-65% of the book is flavor text and not crunch.
And I did a disservice to it by not describing it better, because the styles, among other things, do have a lot of flavour to help a player understand them. Yes, lots of flavour, and good flavour at that. Better than beer? Maybe not, unless it's American beer! :p

Vigilance said:
So to my mind, the book was designed more or less with the same idea the discussion settled on. The book adds a lot of crunch to the game. But if you look at the descriptions of the real world styles, and the simple fact that book uses real styles in the first place is primarily there as a function of character- of roleplaying.
If I didn't say it in the podcast, I'll say it now: Blood & Fists is THE d20 martial arts supplement. That's it. End of story.

Vigilance said:
Thanks again for the great podcast.

Chuck
Thanks for listening. Oh, and thank you for Blood & Guts v2. I liked B&G. I frikkin love B&G v2, and it made writing IHMS v2 pig easy. I'm a big proponent of the class as role/training rather than the class as unit.

We have got to do a modern military feature for ASP. Maybe it'll just be me rambling on and on while Chris and Rob download pron.
 

First of all, to keep to the topic, I was listening to ep. 2 in the car this morning. Very cool, and marked improvement over the first. It was a cool surprise catching you there, Roudi.

Roudi said:
Hal, I've been looking for some good podcasts, and I'm reluctant to sample a large number of them. Would you be able to recommend some of your favourites? Gaming or otherwise.
Roudi, rather than hijack this thread, I've stared a new thread in the Off-Topic forum to discuss this. Check it out here.
 

Glad you enjoyed the podcast, Hal. It was Fraser's judicious editing that kept me looking like a fool... thankfully he cut out my long ramble that ended with "I don't know where I'm going with this."
 

FraserRonald said:
If I didn't say it in the podcast, I'll say it now: Blood & Fists is THE d20 martial arts supplement. That's it. End of story.

Well, like I said, I really enjoyed the give and take. I'm something of a gearhead, so I like making nifty mechanics, but the whole discussion was nice and very well done.

And I was honored even to have one of my books brought into the discussion at all. Im something of a podcast enthusiast, so it was a huge treat to hear something of mine discussed at all.

Chuck
 

Vigilance said:
For instance, I did feel very early in the discussion, one of the participants (I think it was the 3rd gentlemen with Fraser and David, whose name escapes me) kept referring to martial arts as narrative.
I believe you're referring to me (Rob). I wanted to make the point that, IMHO, you can't have a martial arts feeling campaign without the storytelling. As Chris said, then it's just people sitting around saying "Okay, I use Power Attack". A juicy description of what that power attack consists of is fairly necessary. Now, I'm not saying no crunch is needed, but there needs to be an equal balance between crunch and candy to get the game to feel right.

I'll probably be getting into this some more in the next podcast, which is going to feature a much more thematically-oriented style of game where the crunch really doesn't enter into it at all.

Whoops! Spoiler! :)

R.
 

Roudi said:
It was Fraser's judicious editing that kept me looking like a fool... thankfully he cut out my long ramble that ended with "I don't know where I'm going with this."

Oh, I still have that. Maybe I should work on "the Roudi tapes."

Bwah-hah-hah-hah!
 

Vigilance said:
And I was honored even to have one of my books brought into the discussion at all. Im something of a podcast enthusiast, so it was a huge treat to hear something of mine discussed at all.

Just wait for episode 4 . . . planning on a military episode. Oh, I'm thinking there might be mention of another of your products.

Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Wink's as good as a nudge to a blind bat, eh?
 


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