Accountants and D&D

[yeebarr]

I kinda feel uncomfortable starting threads for fear that I may be rehashing old ground...but being a newbie to the boards n' all I thought "what the hey" and decided I'd ask the question anyway....

Can I ask, does anyone else feel that D&D seems to be turning into a game of "Let's go shopping"?

I've only other D&D I played was 15+ years ago (in D&D basic) and I can remember that by the time I reached 6th level I had so much magical stuff I was giving away +1 swords to street urchins so they could have something to play with in their spare time.

Now it seems that "discovered" magic gear is so hard to come by (usually in the form of a bigass sword which only the fighter can use - don't ask how many fights we've had over the +1 ring of protection!) and that most of the gear has to be bought from large towns.

Don't get me wrong...I actually like the new rules better (I feel so guilty about those power-munchkin days) ...but it's just getting a bit frustrating when one or two of my fellow team-mates can chew up and hour of game time um'ing and ah'ing about what equipment they want to buy (ugh...and arguing with the DM about how the gear they have found - usually in a non-WOTC supplement - is not underpriced and the DM should let them buy it at the set price)!

I guess it's all part of the game ("whatever sizzles your bacon" n' all...). I just wanna know if this is an issue other people have found with D&D; do other people find part of the appeal of D&D is getting the gold just so they can peruse the equipment lists?

("Check out the performance stats on this set of armour! I've so gotta get me one of those babies!")

 

[KnowTheToe]

I also dislike the able to/have to purchase stuff from cities aspect of the game. I understand why they do it, or at least I think I do. I think they do it to help keep the CRs balanced as characters get into high levels, making sure people have the correct magical items to defeat creatures and therefore get the correct XP for situation.

I dislike buying items because it does not fit most worlds base tech and economic state. If mass productions/assy line production has not been created, what is the chance a master craftsman is going to have 10 sets of steel armor sitting in his shop, or a variey of 50 new swords. Magic would be even more difficult. Does your world have magic sweatshops with mages chained to tables casting enchantments into equipment?

I like the concept of a random supply of low level basics in stores(without these balance could be effected), high level stuff so rare you will almost never be able to find it in a store.

 

[Wicht]

Its really all about your DM

How generous is he in handing out found treasure and how generous is he with letting you out and out buy a treasured magic item?

The rules are there as mere guidelines, it is the DM who sets the tone of the game.

 

[Tsyr]

I've not found this a problem.

Then again, if a player asked "Where's the magic shop in this town? I wanna buy a pair of +5 Safe-T-Sizzors!", he would be smacked upside the head with a copy of Talislanta (Biggest RPG book I own), and forced to write "Wizards do not sell their life force on street corners in Dave's world!" 100 times on the blackboard.

As you might guess, I don't allow much in the way of magic item sales.

 

[Aeris Winterood]

It's all relative..

It is all relative to the gameers and the DM playing. In my campaigns and most all I have ever played in there was no such thing as a magic shop or such to purchase items... Those items "of power" had to be found/stolen/made by the characters.

I would think if this is a sore point with you maybe find another group to play in or bring it up to the other players and DM in your current group.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Its a complicated issue from many points.

If PCs cant buy... they wont sell too. So the +1 sword he found at 5th lvl will stay with him when he is 10-12th lvl ?

The way the game is balanced, magic items are necessary and more powerful magic items are necessary when you go up say 4-5 lvls. Try fighting demons at 15th lvl with only a +1 sword. So does the DM "provide" the necessary magical items ? Because if he doesnt the PCs can get trashed...

So the DM decides for no buying/selling of items. Since they can't buy specific items, the DM can't give them "random" magical items. What a bummer when the only fighter of the group is specialized in long sword and the DM puts a +3 flail in the treasure !! This brings a tendency for players instead of haggling about which items they can buy... to "telling" or dropping clues to the DM (offgame too) to choose the items they need/like.

You could say your world is low magic... but that means fighters dont get magical stuff... but Wizards can still cast 1st to 9th lvl spells ? Makes spellcasters a little more stronger since fighters dont have those neat +2 Cloaks of Protection. (Or vest of protection if your a proper min/maxer)

Yes shopping trips to the city make the group lose a load of time and doesnt make for good roleplaying... every single time we hit a city its the same thing. Yet without the magical item shopping I think PCs will end up getting to many create item feats and waste even more time ?

As for Magic Shops... the concept sucks... but what about a Wizard's Tower ? Since a mid to high level Wizard cant sell his stuff he will surely have accumulated some stuff. Its a matter of bargaining with him.

( As a DM you dont want to keep creatures with Damage Reduction out of your choices because the PCs have only +1 wpns and no Wizard. My opinion is try forcing players to decide shopping "lists" outside game time. )

 

[BluWolf]

Yes, I would agree with you that there is a certain aspect of "arms race" in 3E.

The game is balanced upon the concept that players will have access to increasingly more powerful magic that will increase ability scores, saves, AC, DCs and BAB.

If you run the game as is you can fell pretty confident in maintaining appropriate challenges and rewards for players.

If you start to adjust things based upon a preference of playing style you need to be aware of the ripple effects. There is nothing wrong with this. You just need to understand if you are changing the overall GP value of equipment that PCs have according to their level they may or may not be able to adequately face challenges as perscribed.

Example; I tend to be a little on the stingy side when it comes to permanant magic items. Charged items I'll give out pretty freely but permanent items not so much. So your average 3rd level party of 5 IMC would probably hve only 2 perm items. 1 magic sword or a bow or something. Thats fine it fits our style.

The MM lists a Werewolf as a CR 3 encounter. I would probably be a little hesitant to though a Werewolf at the party unless they were fully healed and somewhat prepared. If they weren't and the WW ambushed them flatfooted I would fooly expect 1 or 2 of them to die.

Its not impossible to change the overall feel of the magic arms race. It just takes a little experience and some awareness of the GM of his players capabilites.

 

[Rashak Mani]

My DM gives out quite a lot of Gold in coins or gems or valuable stuff. So what are you supposed to do with that gold ? Unless you need RaiseDead and other spells... you cant do anything with a lot of gold ! (Besides rping things like drink and whores)

So we buy/build magical items...

For game feeling I would prefer getting more magical items equivalent to that gold and not having to do all that buying.

 

[Tsyr]

You could say your world is low magic... but that means fighters dont get magical stuff... but Wizards can still cast 1st to 9th lvl spells ? Makes spellcasters a little more stronger since fighters dont have those neat +2 Cloaks of Protection. (Or vest of protection if your a proper min/maxer)

Or I could play low magic and have it work out just fine, contrary to your apparent assumption.

I use the WoT magic system in a normal DnD-style fantasy game. Add in the varying levels of "above masterwork" items and different magic system, and it works out good.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Its really all about your DM

How generous is he in handing out found treasure and how generous is he with letting you out and out buy a treasured magic item?

The rules are there as mere guidelines, it is the DM who sets the tone of the game.

I agree with Wicht.

In some campeigns I have magic stores as semi-common, and have magic items common place.

In other campeigns, they don't exist at all, and magic items are unique in name and function.

FD