Accountants and D&D
- Thread starter yeebarr
- Start date
Thanks for some of the good posts here people; I especially like the trading equipment ideas and will bring that up with our DM.
I guess the biggest irk for me is really game time spent with players just going (over and over again) "can I buy this here?" "can I buy this here?" "why don't they have this armour?", etc, etc. - hopefully the trading concept will get us back into roleplaying faster!
But I guess I really shouldn't complain; I have used the time "out of play" to teach my 2 year old daughter to throw dice!
I guess the biggest irk for me is really game time spent with players just going (over and over again) "can I buy this here?" "can I buy this here?" "why don't they have this armour?", etc, etc. - hopefully the trading concept will get us back into roleplaying faster!
But I guess I really shouldn't complain; I have used the time "out of play" to teach my 2 year old daughter to throw dice!
S
shurai
Guest
I think magic shops are perfectly appropriate for default-style D&D. And this mages-won't-sell-their-lifeforce-for-mere-gold nonsense is absurd. After all, it only takes a four hundred xp or so to make a +2 weapon. That much xp is earned pretty easily by the time you're high enough in level to make such a thing. After all, that 4,000 gp in profit a mage would make upon selling a Flaming Greataxe +1 would be able to sustain him for several years, assuming a pretty modest lifestyle.
Not everyone wants to be "uber," so not all wizards care about becoming 20th level. I can envision a game world in which some wizards are perfectly content to make a magical weapon or some other item once a year or so, and spend the rest of the time casting spells for the city for extra cash. It would likely be a pretty easy life. Pour some of your essence into a bundle of arrows, sell it, live off the profits until you recuperate and do it again. Or maybe you feel like making a few potions or scrolls this time.
Think of the Diagon Alley sequence from Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (yes, the book, not the movie). Your trip to the magic shop can be interesting and fun. After all, unless you're changing the game, a Small City (see the DMG) is likely to have a couple dozen spellcasters with item creation feats. And considering how many people could afford magical gear just from the aristocracy alone, assuming that no wizard with appropriate feats would think of opening a magic shop is just silly.
Of course, I just ran a low-magic campaign so my post doesn't mean a thing.![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
-S
Not everyone wants to be "uber," so not all wizards care about becoming 20th level. I can envision a game world in which some wizards are perfectly content to make a magical weapon or some other item once a year or so, and spend the rest of the time casting spells for the city for extra cash. It would likely be a pretty easy life. Pour some of your essence into a bundle of arrows, sell it, live off the profits until you recuperate and do it again. Or maybe you feel like making a few potions or scrolls this time.
Think of the Diagon Alley sequence from Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (yes, the book, not the movie). Your trip to the magic shop can be interesting and fun. After all, unless you're changing the game, a Small City (see the DMG) is likely to have a couple dozen spellcasters with item creation feats. And considering how many people could afford magical gear just from the aristocracy alone, assuming that no wizard with appropriate feats would think of opening a magic shop is just silly.
Of course, I just ran a low-magic campaign so my post doesn't mean a thing.
-S
mirzabah
First Post
... and 8 of them concern paladinsCedric said:
Anyway, back on topic... I must admit that I too was a little disturbed to find that Magic 'R' Us became the "norm" in 3E. Sure, it is up to the DM, but if the underlying assumption in the core books and supplementary material is that you can pretty much go out and buy any magic item you want, then a DM that doesn't allow this looks harsh. In 1E, the assumption in the books was that you had to find magic items and if a DM allowed you to purchase magic, then he or she would be seen as generous.
Besides, finding magic items was a big part of the fun in the 1E days. If my paladin wanted a better sword, he had to spend some time chasing down rumours to find out where one might be and then had to kick some butt to actually get it. Going down to ye local magic shoppe to pick up a +5 Holy Avenger isn't nearly so exciting...
I pitch my rock in with the 'magic can be bought' brigade.
Let us think about it this way:
There are thousands of wizards out there.
Most of them are not adventuring, therefore they will have to sustain themselves (and they are usually creature of comfort). Many will have Item Creation feats.
The most logical way to earn big money is to therefore manufacture magical items: it is relatively quick (1000gp/day), and earns a phenomenal amount compared to even skilled labour.
That said, this usually only applies to low level items (+2 weapons and below or equivalent caster level). Higher level items can be purchased through the black market (usually a miscellaneous selection), auction (ditto) or only by joining various guilds, factions and the like. Very high level items are rarely sold, though may be commissioned by powerful mage guilds or similar.
Let us think about it this way:
There are thousands of wizards out there.
Most of them are not adventuring, therefore they will have to sustain themselves (and they are usually creature of comfort). Many will have Item Creation feats.
The most logical way to earn big money is to therefore manufacture magical items: it is relatively quick (1000gp/day), and earns a phenomenal amount compared to even skilled labour.
That said, this usually only applies to low level items (+2 weapons and below or equivalent caster level). Higher level items can be purchased through the black market (usually a miscellaneous selection), auction (ditto) or only by joining various guilds, factions and the like. Very high level items are rarely sold, though may be commissioned by powerful mage guilds or similar.
Buying and selling magic items
I'm playing in a long-established 1st edition campaign (interrupted occasionally by diversions into Champions, Deadlands, and Living Greyhawk) and the DM, I think, has got it right.
Our characters rarely sell magic items. The high-level group runs across a large number of +1 weapons, armor, and other low-level magic items, but due to the sheer number of henchmen, hirelings, and followers, nearly everyone of these low level items gets doled out to one of these followers.
The lower-level group tends to run across items that the group can't use because they already have items of equivalent power. As a result, these items tend to get traded for training costs, or for magic items that the group can use.
Neither trading nor selling is guaranteed, though trading them off for training costs always works. First there has to be someone interested. Then this NPC has to have enough money to buy the item. This is usually possible only in large port towns or cities (usually national capitols). It can take a month or two, and if we're seeking to barter magic items for other magic items, it is very likely that we don't get what we want (unless it's something very common). We get a better deal when trading, but selling usually means that we're getting 1/3 to 1/2 of the "book value" at best.
So far, no PC has ever succeeded in buying a permanent magic item or a wand, rod, or staff. +1 weapons are common enough that it might be possible to buy one, but no one has ever felt the need.
Tarek
I'm playing in a long-established 1st edition campaign (interrupted occasionally by diversions into Champions, Deadlands, and Living Greyhawk) and the DM, I think, has got it right.
Our characters rarely sell magic items. The high-level group runs across a large number of +1 weapons, armor, and other low-level magic items, but due to the sheer number of henchmen, hirelings, and followers, nearly everyone of these low level items gets doled out to one of these followers.
The lower-level group tends to run across items that the group can't use because they already have items of equivalent power. As a result, these items tend to get traded for training costs, or for magic items that the group can use.
Neither trading nor selling is guaranteed, though trading them off for training costs always works. First there has to be someone interested. Then this NPC has to have enough money to buy the item. This is usually possible only in large port towns or cities (usually national capitols). It can take a month or two, and if we're seeking to barter magic items for other magic items, it is very likely that we don't get what we want (unless it's something very common). We get a better deal when trading, but selling usually means that we're getting 1/3 to 1/2 of the "book value" at best.
So far, no PC has ever succeeded in buying a permanent magic item or a wand, rod, or staff. +1 weapons are common enough that it might be possible to buy one, but no one has ever felt the need.
Tarek
Thorin Stoutfoot
First Post
Magic items can be bought
I used to play with rare magic, magic can't be sold, etc, and I've gone back to the "sell for half", and commission new at DMG + 10%.
It balances the game a little better, and PCs aren't stuck with whatever crap item I happen to roll. It also doesn't penalize the PCs for picking Exotic Weapon Proficiencies in weapons that never show up on the treasure tables, for instance.
It works so much better, and eliminates the enormous amount of time doing book-keeping in game, so it's worth it.
I used to play with rare magic, magic can't be sold, etc, and I've gone back to the "sell for half", and commission new at DMG + 10%.
It balances the game a little better, and PCs aren't stuck with whatever crap item I happen to roll. It also doesn't penalize the PCs for picking Exotic Weapon Proficiencies in weapons that never show up on the treasure tables, for instance.
It works so much better, and eliminates the enormous amount of time doing book-keeping in game, so it's worth it.
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