Acquisitions Inc. switching to Daggerheart

[Maxperson]

Let people have a difference of opinion without back-and-forth 2,000-word monologues with a clear subtext of "no, wrong, you're a simpleton bard."

Fixed that for you.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

See, and I know that that ambivalence drives the super passionate DH people up the wall, and I don't think it should. It isn't a crime to be ambivalent about something, but it seems to upset a lot of people!

You are not compelled to form any opinion about this matter before you, nor to disturb your peace of mind at all. Things in themselves have no power to extort a verdict from you. Except bards. Bards always extort the verdict of guilty, and a sentence of death.
-Meditations of Abrahamus Lincolnius

 

[Agamon]

Not saying anyone is doing anything wrong here, necessarily, but personally speaking, when I'm ambivalent about something, I tend to ignore it...

 

[SkidAce]

...on a very serious note, I'm not sure how this helps discussion.

I get it. Almost all discourse now is reduced to its bare binary terms.

You're either with us, or against us. You're either a stan, or a hater.

But isn't that ... kind of basic (not in the TSR sense)? Is it possible for a person to appreciate something, even if it isn't for them? Can a person try to think about something critically without either stanning for it or hating on it? Is it still possible to discuss something without being reduced to warring factions of fandom?

I can't speak for @Parmandur - but just above this he literally posted that "Just as a hobby enthusiast, it is fun to see a game with a genuinely new positioning and opportunity: there hasn't ever been a new game quite like this, with these advantages and momentum." It seems to me that he is grappling with it in good faith, asking reasonable questions and explaining his own priors (see, e.g., his questions about the cards), and trying to get a better understanding while also saying that he's genuinely thrilled to see it!


I posted my personal rules on a different thread, but I'll bold the ones that I think matter-
1. People like what they like.

2. Elves are dead-eyed, soulless abominations.

3. It is always a better idea to try and convince someone to try something by telling them that this new thing is good and fun instead of trying to convince them that they are bad or ignorant for liking what they like.

4. There are only two things in the world that I cannot abide; people who are intolerant of the roleplaying choices of others, and bards.

5. You should try and understand why people like what they like instead of assuming people don't know better.

6. I don't know about you, but I take comfort knowing that he's out there. The Dude. Takin' er easy for all us sinners arguing on enworld.


I know that in my experience, people that are true fans of something often unintentionally cause a lot of damage to the thing that they love. Share your enthusiasm and love! That's always the winning play.

This should be required reading for all members.

 

[Aldarc]

Though I would add the general advice to not be a hater that makes it a general habit to yuck on other people's yums.

I keep this comic prepared for discussions like this. While it's about media, the same applies to TTRPGs.

 

[kermit4karate]

Not saying anyone is doing anything wrong here, necessarily, but personally speaking, when I'm ambivalent about something, I tend to ignore it...

Is it not possible to be both ambivalent and mildly curious about something at the same time?

 

[Arilyn]

Yes, sometimes players get a favourite game and won't tolerate any criticism, or sometimes players will tear a game down no matter what. This is an unhealthy stance. I agree.

Frustration kicks in, however, when the person you're arguing with has not played, read, or understood parts of the game, and continues to push negative views based on erroneous assumptions.

D&D is just a kill and loot game.
Fate lets players do whatever they want.
Shadowdark is purely for dungeon crawling and torch timers are stupid.
Daggerheart is just a mash up of ideas from other games and will soon be gathering dust on shelves.
Light games don't allow for interesting characters.
Story Now games don't work because the game world will be surreal.
All OSR fans are bigoted traditionalists who haven't moved past 1980.

Not everyone is going to love all games and no reasonable person assumes their favourites should have no detractors. Stubbornly clinging to misunderstandings is what often triggers the huge fights here, as well as not seeing the value of other playstyles. I'd say this reason is more likely than My favourite game is perfect and you must love it too.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Not saying anyone is doing anything wrong here, necessarily, but personally speaking, when I'm ambivalent about something, I tend to ignore it...

Something I don't care for I ignore. But ambivalence is mixed or contradictory feelings - both loving and hating. It's as far from "meh" as can be and can be very hard to ignore.

 

[Parmandur]

This is another high-level reason I say to just leave it up to the DM. Is it perfect? No, because people aren't. Still, D&D generally works out very well for me and my groups.

I do like that Daggerheart, joining other recent games like 5E and clones, or Shadowdark, or Cosmere, really leans into what makes TTRPGs different from video games: human player creativity and agency.

Really, I'm disinclined to learn a strikingly similar, and yet completely different, game unless the payoff is clear.

Yeah, that's a big thing for me: I have to be sold that a game does a new thing better than games I already have. Shadowdark seems great, but I havemseen anything that suggests it really does something that DCC doesn't already provide for me.

 

[kermit4karate]

Something I don't care for I ignore. But ambivalence is mixed or contradictory feelings - both loving and hating. It's as far from "meh" as can be and can be very hard to ignore.

So now we're arguing over what ambivalence means?

I'll stick to ambivalence rather than "meh" for me. I'm mildly curious about it, just not enthralled.