Acquisitions Inc. switching to Daggerheart

[mamba]

if it's selling less than 2014 did - which is a given given the perception that it's still 5E and 5E is a 10 year old game - I don't know that I'd share sales data either

why is that even a given, if anything it should be a given that it is selling more. You have about the same number of new players, and you have a large portion of your existing players buying the new edition (over a period of time, as their campaigns wrap up).

For that matter, 2014 sales grew year over year for most of those 10 years, something that runs counter to your take on what is given.

How do you arrive at it being a given that it sells less than 2014 did?

 

[Ashilyn]

How do you arrive at it being a given that it sells less than 2014 did?

History and sales trends of other games and past editions of D&D almost universally show a decline over time - it's one of the big things that even motivates these refreshes and new editions. Overall perception and trends seem to (that's the big caveat here) show that it's almost certain that the new core books are probably selling less/at a slower pace than the existing 2014 material did.

CR Campaign 4 starting and the new season of Stranger Things will inevitably give it an injection in the arm, because that also has historical precedence, but yes, I'd say it's very likely that 2024 sold less at launch than 2014, in part because of the confusion of what it is from some, and the perception that it's just more 5E from others.

The thing is - none of that means it's selling poorly, it almost certainly isn't. It's just unlikely it's hitting the same metrics as the 2014 launch did, or whatever other arbitrary threshold Hasbro has set for it.

 

[mamba]

The thing is - none of that means it's selling poorly, it almost certainly isn't. It's just unlikely it's hitting the same metrics as the 2014 launch did, or whatever other arbitrary threshold Hasbro has set for it.

it easily exceeded the 2014 launch, heck the 2014 books exceeded that every year since then.

WotC told us it was the fastest selling book (2024 PHB), and the 2014 PHB wasn’t even the second fastest by then. That is not a statement they make without some data to back it up, and it certainly covers the launch. How sales have been since is anyone’s guess

 

[Parmandur]

it easily exceeded the 2014 launch, heck the 2014 books exceeded that every year since then.

WotC told us it was the fastest selling book (2024 PHB), and the 2014 PHB wasn’t even the second fastest by then. That is not a statement they make without some data to back it up, and it certainly covers the launch. How sales have been since is anyone’s guess

Yeah, with both Daggerheart or 2024 D&D there is no particular reason to believe they are anything other than financial successes, like 'em or not.

 

[Reynard]

why is that even a given, if anything it should be a given that it is selling more. You have about the same number of new players, and you have a large portion of your existing players buying the new edition (over a period of time, as their campaigns wrap up).

Are either of these assertions true? I don't know, and neither do you.

 

[mamba]

Are either of these assertions true? I don't know, and neither do you.

assertions that 1) about the same number of new players get added now as a year before and 2) that a significant percentage of the people owning the 2014 books are buying the 2024 ones?

I consider them self-evident. I see no reason to assume that there are a lot less new players. For 2) we had polls and somewhere between 50 and 70% planned to buy them. Even if only 1/3 did that would still be a significant number that results in a bump to overall sales, almost regardless of how many new players get added… and the PHB being the fastest selling must mean someone is buying them.

So either one of the two is so extremely true that the other not being true is more than compensated for by it, or they are both true. I consider the latter to be the much more probable explanation.

 

[Reynard]

assertions that 1) about the same number of new players get added now as a year before and 2) that a significant percentage of the people owning the 2014 books are buying the 2024 ones?

I consider them self-evident. For 2) we had polls and somewhere between 50 and 70% planned to buy them. Even if only 1/3 did that would still be a significant number that results in a bump to overall sales, almost regardless of how many new players get added

None of that is data.

 

[Parmandur]

Are either of these assertions true? I don't know, and neither do you.

What we know is that by the end of 2024, the 2024 PHB had sold about as well as the first three years of 2014...which means 2024 has st least outdoor the lifetime totals of 3E, 3.5, and 4E by the transitive property.

No idea abou what sustained sales are, but all signs, irregardless of how one views the rules, have been positive.

 

[mamba]

None of that is data.

I know, but unless you have some data to contradict any of this, I am very comfortable with these two assertions. Also, there still is the fact that WotC said it is the fastest selling. While that is not hard data, that would be hard to explain if the two were not true

 

[SteveC]

I know, but unless you have some data to contradict any of this, I am very comfortable with these two assertions. Also, there still is the fact that WotC said it is the fastest selling. While that is not hard data, that would be hard to explain if the two were not true

I absolutely don't want to take us down this road again, but Amazon Canada still has sales ranks. When I checked earlier and D&D PHB 2024 was #2 in gaming books and Daggerheart was #3. And their ranks in books were about 200 apart. Take that for what it's worth.