Actions after Dimension Door

[Thanee]

If you DD next to someone deliberately, you should have been aware beforehand.

But still initiative starts when both sides are aware... you might call the DD round the surprise round, but that doesn't really change anything, unless you allow translocated beings to act immediately.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Khaalis]

Actually by the rules you CANNOT have a full action after using Demtion Door, unless you posess the "Shadow Pounce" class ability (Telflammar Shadowlord 4).

I dont have the book handy so I will use the following form the WotC site:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rp/20031008a

Shadow Pounce (Ex): When Riggilla uses a spell or a spell-like ability with the teleport descriptor, she can execute a full attack action after the teleportation. She must have line of sight on the target from the original location, and the destination must be a place from which she can launch a melee attack with the weapon in her hand at the beginning of her action.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

If you DD next to someone deliberately, you should have been aware beforehand.

But still initiative starts when both sides are aware... you might call the DD round the surprise round, but that doesn't really change anything, unless you allow translocated beings to act immediately.

Which is exactly what I do, as there is nothing in the rules that suggests I should do otherwise. I haven't seen it unbalance my game yet, so I haven't seen a need to House Rule it.

Edit to clarify: I allow passengers to act fully after a Dimension Door. I do not allow the caster to do so, as the spell explicitly prohibits him from taking any actions after casting the spell, until his next turn.

 

[Thanee]

Uhm... Khaalis... of course, normally, you cannot do that, since you have to spend an action on the teleportation.

That ability technically gives you another immediate full action (limited to a full-attack).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Which is exactly what I do, as there is nothing in the rules that suggests I should do otherwise.

Yeah, according to the rules the action ends only for the caster and only with Dimension Door. There's nothing to argue.

I find this inconsistent, however, and I prefer the (house) rule, that it applies to every translocation... there should be a little time you need to get accustomed to your new surroundings.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Galbard]

Khaalis, the discussion is about what the passengers can do after the DD.

Even more specifically, I'm not so much worried about using DD to initiate combat. That has it's own disadvantages, as was noted above and the opponent still has a chance to win initiative, just as with a regular ambush. It's more about what happens when DD is used IN combat. Two examples, the first one happened in my last game, the second is hypothetically:

The (6 character) party has to move 1500 feet up a mountain. It is decided that 2 characters will fly/airwalk up and the sorcerer will DD the rest in 2 steps. When the first 2 characters are almost up they are attacked by a dragon. Two of the characters below cast/drink fly (potions) and then the sorcerer DD them halfway. The next round the sorcerer DD them right above the dragon (who in the meantime had snatched on of the other 2 characters). Because of my houserule they had to wait a round before acting. If not, all of them could have made a full round attack. And the dragon would have had no chance to get away because the sorcerer could repeat this as often as he wanted. All in mid air! That seems pretty powerful to me. With the houserule they still managed to rescue their buddy and scare the dragon off (with about 1/4 of it's HP left).

Next, imagine the party before the door of the inner sanctum of a BBEG after having battled through his stronghold. Not wanting to waste time they kick the door open, only to find out that the last of the BBEG underlings are waiting for them with longspears after overturned tables and such. They might be able to reach the BBEG in the back, but only after some tumble or climb checks and a couple of AoO's and then they can do only a single attack. But the RAW allow them to delay to just after the sorcerer, have him DD them next to the BBEG and then all of them can make a full attack (most likely including sneak attacks). Scratch one BBEG. Again, this seems too powerful for me.

 

[dagger]

If you are going to nerf a spell like dimension door because it is unbalanced, you are going to have a LOT harder time with higher level spells. Nefering a low mid level spell because the party might or might not use one tactic is kind way off base. Some players and DMs seem to forget that bad guys can use the spells the same way against them.

 

[Thanee]

Some players and DMs seem to forget that bad guys can use the spells the same way against them.

And how exactly does that make it better?

If you come to the conclusion, that then players do not use it for the feat, that the DM might use it as well...

Then what's the difference to not allowing it?

Bye
Thanee

 

[dagger]

Next, imagine the party before the door of the inner sanctum of a BBEG after having battled through his stronghold. Not wanting to waste time they kick the door open, only to find out that the last of the BBEG underlings are waiting for them with longspears after overturned tables and such. They might be able to reach the BBEG in the back, but only after some tumble or climb checks and a couple of AoO's and then they can do only a single attack. But the RAW allow them to delay to just after the sorcerer, have him DD them next to the BBEG and then all of them can make a full attack (most likely including sneak attacks). Scratch one BBEG. Again, this seems too powerful for me.

Actually this seems like a perfectly reasonable tactic to me in a world of magic. If the big bad guy is expecting to hold off wizards and cleric casting 4th level spells (and higher?) with over turned tables and longspears….well he deserves to die quick. Maybe this big bad guy should have prepared the battlefield a little better against spell casters since he knew they where coming. Seems to me the big bad guy is more worried about the fighter types and has failed to take into account many other factors.

IMO

 

[Galbard]

The overturned tables and longspears can be replaced with Pit Fiends gated in during a timestop and the result is the same. Unless the BBEG is willing to stop all teleportation spells (and his own summonings and emergency exit) he's not going to do anything about it by the RAW. That's pretty powerful for a 4th level spell.

It can get even worse if they have 2 casters capable of casting DD. Delay as necessary, first caster DD in, fighters/rogues lay the smack on the BBEG, second caster DD out, Pit Fiends wonder what has been going on.