Actions (does tumbling negate DEX?)

[Xaov]

Actions

I have a player who is convinced that if he Tumbles behind an enemy he can get a sneak attack on them. and all they get is an AoO. I personnaly didn't think it would work due to the fact no monster is stupid enough to just stand there looking at nothing if he sees the character roll past.

I know that I have the ultimate ruling. but if I could get actual evidence from the Books and other DMS to support or veto my decision to outlaw it. that would be great.

 

[TheEvil]

You don't need to provide any proof, he does. No where have I seen it say that using the tumble skill negates your opponents dex, so unless he tumbles into a flanking position, no sneak attack for him. It sounds like he is trying to mix what he thinks SHOULD happen with what the rules actually say.

 

[Kodam]

Hi!

Creatures don't have no "behind" in DnD. If he succeedes in his tumble-check he can freely move up to 20 ft. around (or even through with a higher DC) the enemy without even triggering AoOs. But he won't get no Sneak Attack unless the enemy is flat-footed, flanked or has lost his Dex-Bonus in any way.

Kodam

 

[Henry]

I have a player who is convinced that if he Tumbles behind an enemy he can get a sneak attack on them. and all they get is an AoO. I personnaly didn't think it would work due to the fact no monster is stupid enough to just stand there looking at nothing if he sees the character roll past.

I know that I have the ultimate ruling. but if I could get actual evidence from the Books and other DMS to support or veto my decision to outlaw it. that would be great.

This really belongs in Rules. Also, I hope you don't mind if I added a couple of words to your title. -Henry

According to the rules, you only get sneak attack damage if the opponent loses their DEX bonus, or if they are flanked. The Tumble skill does NOT negate an opponent's DEX bonus, nor does it by itself cause someone to flank another. There is no facing; therefore, if the Rogue were in one-on-one melee combat with his opponent, then if he tumbled behind the opponent the opponent would just turn to face him.

 

[Klaus]

The mistake your playing is making is saying "if he Tumbles behind an enemy", since in 3.x combat creatures have no "fronts" or "backs", but are assumed to actively keep tabs on opponents around them. Only by flanking can an attacker bypass this awareness (and gain a sneak attack). And sometimes not even then (high-level rogues and barbarians).

What your player wants to achieve with Tumble is achievable with Bluff, using "Feinting In Combat". Tell him to try that.

 

[Faerl'Elghinn]

This really belongs in Rules.

According to the rules, you only get sneak attack damage if the opponent loses their DEX bonus, or if they are flanked. The Tumble skill does NOT negate an opponent's DEX bonus, nor does it by itself cause someone to flank another. There is no facing; therefore, if the Rogue were in one-on-one melee combat with his opponent, then if he tumbled behind the opponent the opponent would just turn to face him.

All attacks made by a character whose position is undetectable by the attackee are considered sneak attacks as well. Invisibility, ranged attacks from hiding (within 30 feet) even if the creature is already engaged in combat with someone else. If he's not aware of your position, you get a sneak attack. As far as this example goes however... No. Just no...

 

[Kae'Yoss]

All attacks made by a character whose position is undetectable by the attackee are considered sneak attacks as well.

And what happens if you can't pinpoint the enemy's position? You lose your dex bonus to AC against him.

 

[Xaov]

alright cool

Excellent this was the type of info I was looking for thanks for responding everyone, and no prob with adding words to the title Henry.

I'll make sure to tell my player what you have told me.

 

[Faerl'Elghinn]

And what happens if you can't pinpoint the enemy's position? You lose your dex bonus to AC against him.

Right- I was merely clarifying. Sorry about presenting the information as if it were substantially different. I would have elaborated earlier, but ran out of time.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Faerl'Elghinn, did you talk with the Giant about using Belkar as your avatar here? From what I read on his site, he seems to be very strict about folks using his artwork on other websites...