Active and Passive Perception

[Howndawg]

One suggestion I heard was Mike Mearl's idea about rogues being able to use Int to find traps. Another possibilty would be to use Int when a character is actively searching for something and to use Wis when the character has a chance to passively notice something. 3.x used this system and FC uses this system. It helps characters like rogues, wizards, and bards who traditionally favour Int over Wis and hurts characters like clerics, druids, and rangers who favour Wis over Int. Fighters and barbarians could care less. There would still be one skill, but different abilities would be used.

 

[GX.Sigma]

Ooh, I like that very much indeed.

I thought this thread was going to be about the fact that, despite Monte Cook's hilarious suggestion of "adding" a passive perception skill, no such rule actually exists in the playtest document.

 

[IronWolf]

Yeah, someone mentioned this in one of the other threads, I think the Is Wisdom too powerful thread. I agree, I think that sounds like a nice compromise (active versus passive).

 

[steeldragons]

Makes perfect sense to me.

The high Int. characters would notice if something is amiss when trying to notice.

The high Wis. characters would notice if something is "off" or "doesn't feel right" when not trying...probably promoting an active check from the "smarter" characters to confirm.

Me likes.
--SD

 

[Skyscraper]

Based on my Warhammer RPG experience, and to build on the OP's suggestion, you could have two different skills:

1) perception (more in the sense of spot or hear something): this is a WIS-based skill
2) search (as in the PC spends time going through things, probably more methodically): this is an INT-based skill

So really, to search a room for a secret door (meaning: you tap on the walls and you look under the rug and behind cabinets), or to search a chest for traps, it would be INT all the time. But to spot an assassin lurking in the shadows during combat, it would be WIS all the time.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Based on my Warhammer RPG experience, and to build on the OP's suggestion, you could have two different skills:

1) perception (more in the sense of spot or hear something): this is a WIS-based skill
2) search (as in the PC spends time going through things, probably more methodically): this is an INT-based skill

Judging by the Rule of Three article, they're trying to get away from the idea of "This skill is Int-based". The skill covers a variety of related activities; which ability is used depends on what sort of activity it is.

So in this case, the skill might be Perception +3.

If there's a sound a character might notice, the DM can say "Give me a check - Wis plus Perception". If the character is methodically searching drawers, the DM might say "Give me a check - Int plus Perception".

If you don't have the Perception skill, you're just rolling a straight ability check.

If only one person at the table has the Perception skill, I can also picture it commonly playing out like this:

DM: "Everyone give me a Wis check."
Player: "Can I add Perception to that?"

So rather than every skill being tied to a specific ability, the ability that relates to the skill is situational depending on how you're using the skill and what you're trying to achieve...

-Hyp.

 

[Skyscraper]

Judging by the Rule of Three article, they're trying to get away from the idea of "This skill is Int-based". The skill covers a variety of related activities; which ability is used depends on what sort of activity it is.

So in this case, the skill might be Perception +3.

If there's a sound a character might notice, the DM can say "Give me a check - Wis plus Perception". If the character is methodically searching drawers, the DM might say "Give me a check - Int plus Perception".

If you don't have the Perception skill, you're just rolling a straight ability check.

If only one person at the table has the Perception skill, I can also picture it commonly playing out like this:

DM: "Everyone give me a Wis check."
Player: "Can I add Perception to that?"

So rather than every skill being tied to a specific ability, the ability that relates to the skill is situational depending on how you're using the skill and what you're trying to achieve...

-Hyp.

Yep, sounds good.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

I obviously favour this excellent idea.
Whilst skills might apply to any number of ability checks, the rules will have to spell out the meaning and coverage of each ability, and I think the demarcation of perception into Active/Passive spreads the responsibility across Int/Wis and reinforces what those abilities are really about.

 

[Minigiant]

To me, Int seem more active where Wis is more defensive and passive. Cha can be somewhat defensive and passive but is mostly active.
Outside of social interaction, most cases of the player actively having the character do something mentally will be a Int version of the skill. Social interactions would usually be Cha skill though. For the most point, a player can rarely invoke a Wis check. Players would have to continue a situation long enough to invoke a Wis check..


So for something like animal handling

To get the king's pet boar to come to you it's Cha
To notice the personality and pain of the wounded animal it's Wis.
Using properly use animal rearing techniques to get it to follow you it's Int.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

This is a really good call.