AD&D DMG, on fudging

[The Shaman]

For example, an assassin that sneak in and kills the sentry in a single hit followed by coup-de-gracing the entire party.

Why is there only one sentry? Why didn't the party take other measures to protect themselves, like trapping the door to their sleeping quarters? Sounds like the players are pretty sloppy.

Do the characters have a chance to hear the sneaking assassin and wake up? Is a coup de grace an automatic kill, or is there a chance to survive? Does a coup de grace provoke a check for detection by the other characters? Sounds like the referee is cutting corners.

I know this is an off-the-cuff example, but this is the problem with off-the-cuff examples.

It was D&D 2E and I was playing a Paladin and I was about level 3, iirc (might have been 4).

For various reasons, the character got separated from the party and was having fatigue penalties on the way back to town. So the DM rolled a random encounter. It happened. The he rolled for type. 1d3 trolls. So he rolled 3 trolls.

Needless to say, I woke up to monsters that moved faster than me, had me surrounded and that I could not injure in any real way. End of the Paladin.

Why was it so critical that this character survive, instead of playing a new or different character?

Now this is worlds apart from deciding to fudge combat rolls on a regular basis. While I suspect that could be done too (after all, diceless roleplaying exists), I think it might make more sense to declare that up front and use a system where the lack of randomness is an expectation of the game design.

Agreed.

Right tool, right job.

I daresay most people would include "if I roll a crit on this next roll, it will just be a normal hit" to fit the definition of fudging. I would describe it as fudging, and used the term as such in the other thread.

I would describe that as fudging as well.

I'm not seeing what pawsplay is seeing in that passage, nor do I think it's a significant difference either way.

 

[The Shaman]

No, it's not. Unless you're telling me that when you DM, you prepare nothing ahead of time, it's not.

I didn't say "the only thing I have prepared", I said "what I have prepared", which can be any number of possible adventures or encounters or locales or what have you. If you have prepared the setting, which you said you do, that's "what you have prepared."

Okay, but this has nothing at all to do with your earlier point, which is basically shoveling plot points at the players 'disguised' as random rumors.

 

[Raven Crowking]

@ Votan: Thanks for your clarification.

I am now going to attempt to make my Wisdom check and follow Jeff Wilder out of the thread.


RC

 

[Bullgrit]

Why is there only one sentry? Why didn't the party take other measures to protect themselves, like trapping the door to their sleeping quarters? Sounds like the players are pretty sloppy.

There is no level of Player caution, skill, and wisdom that someone on a message board can't find errors with to call the Player "sloppy."

Bullgrit

 

[Fifth Element]

There is no level of Player caution, skill, and wisdom that someone on a message board can't find errors with to call the Player "sloppy."

Indeed. Trapping the door to your sleeping quarters - should that be part of your bedtime routine now?

 

[Fifth Element]

Okay, but this has nothing at all to do with your earlier point, which is basically shoveling plot points at the players 'disguised' as random rumors.

Well, if you're going down that road, I was of course speaking about my own campaign with my own players who love that sort of stuff. So whether or not that how you like to play holds little relevance to me.

 

[billd91]

Okay, but this has nothing at all to do with your earlier point, which is basically shoveling plot points at the players 'disguised' as random rumors.

???
Even in a sandbox campaign, I'd expect the DM to push rumors about adventuring areas so I could make reasonable decisions about where the PCs should go without getting in over their heads. This is bad how?

 

[The Shaman]

There is no level of Player caution, skill, and wisdom that someone on a message board can't find errors with to call the Player "sloppy."

I don't think that's true, but be that as it may, can we agree that, "Uh, we posted a guard." represents something of a lackluster approach to group safety?

Trapping the door to your sleeping quarters - should that be part of your bedtime routine now?

When assassination is an occupational hazard?

Yes, actually it should be.

Even in a sandbox campaign, I'd expect the DM to push rumors about adventuring areas so I could make reasonable decisions about where the PCs should go without getting in over their heads. This is bad how?

Offering information about the setting which the players may or may not choose to use in their decision-making isn't the same thing as laying a trail of breadcrumbs from your last preprogrammed encounter to your next preprogrammed encounter on the way to the climax of the adventure-story arc.

 

[Fifth Element]

???
Even in a sandbox campaign, I'd expect the DM to push rumors about adventuring areas so I could make reasonable decisions about where the PCs should go without getting in over their heads. This is bad how?

That is indeed what I was getting at.

 

[Fifth Element]

Yes, actually it should be.Offering information about the setting which the players may or may not choose to use in their decision-making isn't the same thing as laying a trail of breadcrumbs from your last preprogrammed encounter to your next preprogrammed encounter on the way to the climax of the adventure-story arc.

Absolutely true! Now, why you interpreted something as vague as "what you have prepared" that way, I'll never know.