AD&D First Edition inferior?

[MeepoTheMighty]

Geez, tell me about it. Haven't tried multi-class in 3e, but in 1e, **of course** we multi-classed. A wizard who could fight? Booyeah! A thief with magic abilities? Of course! Humans were only good for Paladins! Demi-humans and multiclasses were sexy and kewl powerz rulz.

Proving one of the points that those of us on the pro-3E side of the debate have been making all along.

 

[barsoomcore]

That was what Dancey said then but now that "all the jets are in their boxes and the clouds have all gone to bed" what would he say now?

Ask him, not me. He's over at GamingReport, isn't he?

I'm just pointing out that your "strategy" offers no value according to the business model described by Ryan as he was creating the OGL. How do you know if that model is no longer valid?

Your original "sell PHBs strategy" is settled anyway.

Could you be more specific? What does "settled" mean?

Don't forget all markets are dynamic and I'm just stating a huge market is being neglected.

How do you know it's huge? Because you've got a dozen friends who feel ngelected? Because four or five people have posted such a feeling on this board? That equals a huge market?

Excuse me if I don't find that very compelling.

If someone said, "Oh I'm not interested in that I only like the original rules", well they could go online download it at the customer service area and be playing a classic style adventure that night.

It's a sound idea and one that makes total marketing sense.

It makes no sense whatsoever. WotC didn't make a penny on the transaction you just described. Unless you're suggesting people SELL material for older editions. Your original idea was that WotC should add the older editions to the SRD. But maybe you think WotC could sell that stuff instead.

Well, guess what? They do! If you want to buy old adventures and other goodies, you CAN DO THAT. Go here and enjoy yourself to your heart's content. Ask them how many sales they're getting while you're there, will you? Maybe we'll see how HUGE this market really is.

If you want some company to start producing NEW material for the old games you need to demonstrate a viable business model. The fact that you think it would be cool is not a viable business model.

And again, if WotC SRD's the earlier editions of the game they are providing the market with a reason to NOT buy the new product they've just invested all this money and time in. How does that make any marketing sense? Or do you suggest they support multiple versions and attempt to make money on all of them simultaneously? Doubling or even tripling their overhead -- for what? For this "huge market" you insist is waiting for them?

How do you think they managed to miss this "huge" market when they were putting 3E together? Are they morons? Gee, pretty smart morons considering they're selling massive quantities of their products. I find it much easier to believe that the failure of research is yours, not theirs.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Proving one of the points that those of us on the pro-3E side of the debate have been making all along.

That him and his players were Munchkins? That is so far from my experience with multiple groups of players that it's not even funny. For every elf fighter/mu there nine human PC's of various classes. Maybe we were just superior players? I mean we could all subtract without much problem as well. Hmmmm...

 

[ced1106]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AD&D First Edition inferior?

Explain to me again why we need prestige classes then?

To sell more DMG Guides!

"We removed the assassin because an assassin is a point of view of a character rather than a class." -- 2e Preview booklet (paraphrased).

Or hell, lets go classless!

Let's have that guy who made The Fantasy Trip create some sort of generic universal role playing system. (;


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^

 

[JeffB]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AD&D First Edition inferior?

To sell more DMG Guides!

"We removed the assassin because an assassin is a point of view of a character than a class." -- 2e Preview booklet (paraphrased).


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^

Yep..as cool as PRClasses and Feats and other things are a about 3E..It's pretty clear in retrospect they were not only deisgned to make gamers happy..they were designed so endless numbers of books filled with them could be sold, both by WOTC and others..nothing wrong with that..but I belive alot of things were done in 3E (like stuff I mentioned above and a fairly heavy reliance on mini's)were designed in to boost sales of other things WOTC sells.

Smart? yup...kinda Sneaky? yup....

 

[GENEWEIGEL]

If you want some company to start producing NEW material for the old games you need to demonstrate a viable business model. The fact that you think it would be cool is not a viable business model.

I didn't say the company was going to do anything.

Some companies may want to sell a certain style of game that would have a universal appeal, right?

Now if they had an Advanced System Reference Document ( A.S.R.D. ) then it's a bigger seller.

Everyone wins. All the sellers all the buyers.

A company doesn't even need to get on the winning bandwagon they can just sit back and count their losses.

Now who can possibly have a problem with that?

 

[barsoomcore]

I didn't say the company was going to do anything.

What company? Wizards?

Sorry, I thought you said that Wizards ought to add earlier versions of D&D to the SRD. Clearly that's doing SOMETHING. Something stupid, if you ask me, and I think I've been pretty clear as to why I think so. I note that you've ignored my entire argument, which I take to indicate that you agree that I'm right. Well done.

Some companies may want to sell a certain style of game that would have a universal appeal, right?

Name a single game, nay, a single product of any description that has universal appeal. Finding the market, targetting the market, hitting the market -- THAT'S business.

But yeah, sure, all companies everywhere always want to sell products that have universal appeal. The fact that it's IMPOSSIBLE is why we have a market in the first place.

Now if they had an Advanced System Reference Document ( A.S.R.D. ) then it's a bigger seller.

What's a bigger seller? Is it too much to ask for a few more nouns here and there? Honestly. I assume you're referring to the mythical "universally appealing" game. Please outline the connection between this game and some expanded SRD (again, since you don't provide information, I assume you mean an SRD that includes 1E and 2E). Why does the one depend on the other?

Everyone wins. All the sellers all the buyers.

No, only the sellers of your magic unversal game.

Honestly, Gene, I'm trying, but this isn't making any sense to me. If you're trying to make a case for the idea that Wizards should add earlier editions of the game to the SRD, can you try and state it in more complete, straightforward terms? I think I've made a pretty strong argument as to why that's a bad idea from WotC's current business model (or the business model as I best understand it). It's up to you to refute that and I don't understand how your recent post accomplishes that. If I'm misunderstanding you then please show me your meaning again.

On the other hand, if I've turfed your arguments and you can't come up with anything better than recasting your previous "Ooh, this would be cool!" notion, then we're done.

 

[GENEWEIGEL]

Barsoomcore: I've made my point and people understand what I'm saying but you seem to have some "betting chips" on the table and want to misconstrue it with some kind of belligerent double talk.

I simply said if there was a "fixed" SRD that really referred to the entire system then everyone would benefit.

It doesn't need to be written by WOTC as the public already have the material.

Just an okay would be fine. Ghouls like me will do the rest.

 

[RobNJ]

Barsoomcore: I've made my point and people understand what I'm saying but you seem to have some "betting chips" on the table and want to misconstrue it with some kind of belligerent double talk.

Foul. You're just not reading what barsoomcore is saying. You're saying it hurts no one. He's saying that by taking away sales from WotC, it would hurt WotC. You just keep stating with exclaimation marks and smilies that it would hurt no one without addressing his very good point that it would/could hurt WotC.

 

[Theuderic]

What company? Wizards?

I note that you've ignored my entire argument, which I take to indicate that you agree that I'm right. Well done.


On the other hand, if I've turfed your arguments and you can't come up with anything better than recasting your previous "Ooh, this would be cool!" notion, then we're done.

Why do you have to word it that way? You can not tell me that the way you word your arguements ( Well done?) is not rude. Stop being so immature in the way you present your arguement. You are only showing your weak side.And please don't retort. I'm not attacking you. It's just that I FEEL that the way you are presenting your veiws with your little "extras" is not nice. So be polite, please. I know it's hard to but try. Thank you.