AD&D First Edition inferior?

[Thorvald Kviksverd]

Never thought this topic would have these kind of legs--it was gratifying to see later posters echoing at least a few of my sentiments though (we're social creatures afterall).

Anyway...

Ridley's Cohort

Just curious, did I answer your question of page 2?

 

[barsoomcore]

I simply said if there was a "fixed" SRD that really referred to the entire system then everyone would benefit.

And I provided arguments that demonstrated that not everyone would benefit -- that in fact, Wizards of the Coast would suffer.

Have you any counter to my argument?

It doesn't need to be written by WOTC as the public already have the material.

Are you suggesting that the content of the 1E Player's Handbook is public domain? If that's true then I'm stunned. I was very much under the impression that the copyright was still owned by WotC -- in which case they would indeed have to be the ones adding it to the SRD, which would indeed be a bad business decision.

If, however, you're correct and it is public domain, then what's the problem? Why add it to the SRD and apply the OGL to it if it's already free?

Theuderic posted:
Why do you have to word it that way? You can not tell me that the way you word your arguements ( Well done?) is not rude. Stop being so immature in the way you present your arguement. You are only showing your weak side.And please don't retort. I'm not attacking you. It's just that I FEEL that the way you are presenting your veiws with your little "extras" is not nice. So be polite, please. I know it's hard to but try. Thank you.

I'm sorry to have offended you. I used the language I did in order to be sure I would provoke a response. All too often people, rather than present their argument directly, evade the issue, post some insignificant attack and then leave the area. One of my goals is to make that difficult, to try and convince them to present a clear, full statement of their position.

I note that, once again, it worked great. Gene did exactly what I had hoped he would. If he is offended, I'm sure he's capable of defending himself. If you are offended, I am sorry. It was not my intention. But then again, I was not writing to you.

I am obliged to you for your comments on my writing, and I will take them into consideration. You are not, however, a moderator on this board and until you are I see no reason why I should adhere to your notions of polite conversation.

Feel free to retort.

 

[Theuderic]

Apology accepted.

 

[GENEWEIGEL]

Foul. You're just not reading what barsoomcore is saying. You're saying it hurts no one. He's saying that by taking away sales from WotC, it would hurt WotC. You just keep stating with exclaimation marks and smilies that it would hurt no one without addressing his very good point that it would/could hurt WotC.

The point and your agreeing is invalid. WOTC would make more because of the free downloads for other versions and even reinvigorate lost interest.

It's pointless to argue about it anyway.

The SRD itself makes no sense under that kind of scrutiny.

I'm not fouling up the martian apple! !

He's stating his opinion that there is no demand but I'm asking that question.

And one person can't answer that.

 

[GENEWEIGEL]

Are you suggesting that the content of the 1E Player's Handbook is public domain? If that's true then I'm stunned. I was very much under the impression that the copyright was still owned by WotC -- in which case they would indeed have to be the ones adding it to the SRD, which would indeed be a bad business decision.

If, however, you're correct and it is public domain, then what's the problem? Why add it to the SRD and apply the OGL to it if it's already free?.

They already sold the 3e Player's Handbook why not remove the information in that from the SRD instead?

That would increase WOTC's sales even better.

 

[barsoomcore]

WOTC would make more because of the free downloads for other versions and even reinvigorate lost interest.

What's your basis for this assertion? I say the opposite -- that WotC would make LESS, because they would be interfering with sales of their key product. Do you have any evidence to counter this point? You have not presented any so far.

And please tell me how WotC is set up to make money from free downloads. Two years ago you could have easily financed a company with that business model, but subsequent events have proved it to be a treacherous one.

It's pointless to argue about it anyway.

Only if you can't make any counter to my arguments. It seems you cannot.

The SRD itself makes no sense under that kind of scrutiny.

Where have I been unclear? The SRD exists to drive sales of the PHB. Specifically, the 3E PHB. This is a business model that makes sense to me and apparently to not only WotC but also Hasbro. If you don't understand it then I'm sorry. I'm willing to try harder if you are.

I'm not fouling up the martian apple! !

"martian apple"! That's hilarious. I love it.

Lo, the Martian Apple approacheth.

He's stating his opinion that there is no demand but I'm asking that question.

Let's look at what I actually said:

the assembled wisdom of the Martian Apple:
How do you know it (the demand for what you propose) is huge? Because you've got a dozen friends who feel neglected? Because four or five people have posted such a feeling on this board? That equals a huge market?

Show some evidence to suggest that your proposed changes will bring in more money and you can bet they'll jump to your strategy.

Clearly I'm the one who's been "asking that question" -- your whole idea (add old versions to the SRD) depends on the notion that demand for that exists. I've been saying, "Fine, show me that sufficient demand exists and I'll agree that it's a good idea. But if sufficient demand doesn't exist, it's a BAD idea because it mucks up a successful business model."

Now if you want to fuss about how much demand is "sufficient" demand, we can do that, but that assumes that the benefits of expanding the SRD are DEPENDENT on demand of some level, which is not what you've been saying up to now. You've been saying that expanding the SRD is a good thing, no matter what.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

That was what Dancey said then but now that "all the jets are in their boxes and the clouds have all gone to bed" what would he say now?

The line is actually: "After all the jacks are in their boxes..." It's a play on jack-in-the-box.

Maybe it'll surprise you, but I actually wouldn't mind seeing the type of SRD you're talking about. I think it would hurt WotC, though.

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Gene,

I suspect you know why I have not previously posted anything to this thread, but...

I must say I am highly offended by those who take offense to my limiting the capacities of the obviously inferior non-human wannabees. You know, those hairy-footed runts named halflings (half-pints is more like it), big-nosed midgets called gnomes, those stumpy dwarves with hair all over, wedge-eared elves prancing about. Is that racisits? I think not. It is simply identifying mongrels as what they are.

If anyone doubts that, just ask the next demi-human you meet what thay think about it.

Telling it like it is,
Gary

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Hey, I never took offense at demihuman level limits; I just ignored 'em.

 

[barsoomcore]

They already sold the 3e Player's Handbook why not remove the information in that from the SRD instead?

That would increase WOTC's sales even better.

What are you trying to say here? That they're somehow finished selling the Player's Handbook? I am willing to bet it remains their most consistent seller month to month. This is the plan -- drive sales of the PHB. Keep it selling, keep people buying it. Keep expanding the market.

How would removing information from the SRD increase their sales? The SRD is designed (let's say it once more) to drive sales of the PHB. To make it easy for people to develop complementary material that depend upon the PHB. The vision is that the community develops any number of games and supplements, all of which depend on the PHB and therefore encourage people to buy it.

This is why the SRD doesn't include XP tables. Those are the one rules element not included -- so that you HAVE to buy the PHB.

You may not think this is a good strategy. But unless you have a better one, and can demonstrate WHY it would be better, you're just blowing an uninformed opinion around.

Which is fine. We do it on Mars all the time. All I'm doing is pointing out that your opinion flies in the face of the facts that we currently have. Logically, my argument is more correct than yours. That doesn't mean you have to believe me, but it does mean that if you disagree with me, you are being illogical. Something else we do on Mars all the time.