AD&D First Edition inferior?

[angramainyu]

Let's not get into the old male vs. female stat arguments. These discussions always seem to reach flame levels at blinding speed, and no good ever seems to come from them. Please drop the issue.

 

[brymeister]

Inferior? I don't know. It would seem that this is almost a generational question. To old-timers like me, 1st Edition is like High School all the good memories sort of blot out any bad ones.

It was less PC and less skill based (no skills except things like Teamster)

Seeing as it was, along with Space Opera and TnT, the first RPG I really played alot it will always seem special to me. Skinny legs and all

 

[maddman75]

Barsoomcore -

I think your analysis is spot on. And with that, couldn't you also argue that it makes sense for WotC to add their other books to the SRD as well? I'd love to see what the d20 community could do with MotP, OA, and ELH. They've already added the psionics handbook material, hopefully more are to come.

As far as 1e/2e, they won't be added to the SRD, as WotC isn't trying to sell core books to those systems. At least you have hackmaster .

 

[Luddite]

I agree that saying AD&D (1st ed) is inferior to DnD 3E is like saying a Model T is inferior to modern cars. RPG "thecnology" has advanced alot in its nearly 30 years. A lot of inovation has come, some of it good, some of it bad. I find DnD 3E is what I like to play.

I would, however, like to see previous editions not put in the SRD, but either convered to PDF by WotC (I'd pay about 5 $US for the core books of each Edition) or just released into the public domain. It is not that I would want to play it, but I think WotC could safely "cater to the grognards" by doing such and not realy confuse the issue.

If the information from the previous editions were only availbe to those on the interent, then It wont confuse those that go to the store and see many different versions of the same game.

-The Luddite

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

Re: Re

To answer the original question, 1st edition D and D is inferior to Third edition strictly from a rules standpoint. The 3rd edition rules provide more information for the DM and players to handle different situations and events that occur in game.

As far as concept and creativity, they are about the same. Why? 3rd edition incorporates much of what was great about 1st edition from a creativity standpoint.



As far as sex goes, I can tolerate females having equal strength for a fantasy game. I don't care.

Please don't try to bring real life into it. I have met too many modern day males who are too weak to live up to the expectations of being a man. They fall back on the relativist thinking that somehow tries to teach that men and women are equal.

Wake up to the real world and be a man. Men and women aren't equal. They never will be. You are meant to be warrior of the group just as you have been since the dawn of man. Stop trying to make believe that somehow men dominated the world for so long by accident.

It was no accident that men have been the dominant sex for as long as recorded history in 99.9% of world cultures. Men are more aggressive, stronger, and more powerful than women. Only in a peaceful world without war will woman gain even a small measure of equality, and even then it will be hard fought. Males are aggressive, and it is almost impossible to breed out of us. It hardly means 100%, but it definitely means the majority.

I don't think women should be sitting at home doing nothing. It simply means men and women should learn to embrace their differences and work to each other's strengths. They shouldn't teach lies to their children about false equality that doesn't exist in the real world, and never, ever will.

I have so many issues with this that it's not even funny, but I won't voice them for the thread's sake. Suffice it to say I disagree with you.

 

[maddman75]

Yeah, I've fought this flame war before. It wasn't pretty then and let me give you a hint.

The mods always win.

They don't want this discussed for a very good reason. It will explode in flames and crash. D&D is about fantasy, and everyone has different expectations of exactly what that means. Best to leave it at that.

If you feel a burning desire to argue about the issue, might I suggest the rec.games.frp.dnd newsgroup. They'll gladly argue with you for months.

 

[Piratecat]

Celtavian, earlier in the thread Dinkeldog and I were extremely clear about our preference that the thread should not be hijacked into a discussion of gender differences within roleplaying. So I'll be a little more blunt, and repeat what Angramainyu said: don't do so again. I don't appreciate the hijack, and I would appreciate it if it didn't reoccur.

If this is somehow a problem, feel free to email me.

 

[Moorcrys]

It is interesting to me, though, that the arguments fall squarely on the side of either OAD&D or 3e, with very little mention of 2e.

Personally I like both oAD&D and 3e much, much better than 2e.

Moorcrys

 

[barsoomcore]

I would, however, like to see previous editions not put in the SRD, but either convered to PDF by WotC (I'd pay about 5 $US for the core books of each Edition) or just released into the public domain.

Ask and ye shall receive:

TA-DA!

There you go: 1E AD&D rolebooks, as PDFs, for $5-6 each! What more could you want?

Jenifer Lopez' butt? You're on your own there. But if you can find THAT for $5, let me know.

 

[barsoomcore]

Couldn't you also argue that it makes sense for WotC to add their other books to the SRD as well? I'd love to see what the d20 community could do with MotP, OA, and ELH. They've already added the psionics handbook material, hopefully more are to come.

Sure -- and they will. Once the money to be made selling those books is no longer enough to justify withholding them from the market (that is, once the release of that material will increase PHB sales to a point of value higher than the sales of the supplement itself), of course they'll release them. That's a pretty tricky equation to juggle, of course and there will no doubt be stumbles and disagreements on the way, but yeah, that seems like the smart thing to do to me.

Keep thinking of the PHB as Monopoly. For the next fifty years, Hasbro wants to keep on selling that one book. No further investment, no expense beyond printing and shipping, no risk, year after year of CONSISTENT revenue. Maybe not maximised revenue, but consistent. That's what I would want if I were running Hasbro. And the best way to do that is to divest the company of everything else, give the community the tools and opportunities to develop their own supporting materials, and just keep rolling PHBs off the presses.

I don't know that this is possible. Nobody's ever tried it before. I'm very intrigued to see how it will all work out, that's for sure.