AD&D First Edition inferior?

[JeffB]

I've got to agree with geoffrey on a couple of points..

1) the Moldvay/Cook B/X sets are too my fave version of the game..with the brown books a close second.

2) stat blocks can be absolutely nuts...LotIF wastouted as "same price, 16 more pages" i.e. 48 vs. the 32 pagers of previous wotc efforts... those 16 pages extra pages were mostly for stat blocks...I thought to myslef..cool module...but no way in heck would I ever run such a thing....

I've been on both sides of the fence really since the new edition was announced...I love it and hate it at times...I've started 3 different campaigns up, and quit them because the amount of underlying rules were driving me nuts...but I'm realizing that If I just (like another poster said) learn how to say "no" and run it "off the cuff" 3E works pretty good...It's not like OD&D and it's not like 1E, but it works..

I'm starting to realize that the things I REALLY like about the older editions are the modules...the ideas...Gary's and others syle made that stuff so great...not neccesarily the rules...

I have the 1E conversion of U1: Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh (the old one which included the complete module, before WOTC revised the conversion process), and I ran the Haunted House part a few days ago, and I just sort of "winged it" rule-wise...I had alot more fun that I did the 3 previous attempts at playing 3E with my head stuck in the DMG and MM.....All in all, I didn't feel that 3E rules hindered that session..mainly because I did not let them do so...I had fun..maybe not as much as I had running it 20 + years ago under my O/AD&D hybrid...but it was cool...

Convert all those old mods up...and wing it for a session or two..seemed to work OK for this old die-hard...

 

[Thorvald Kviksverd]

Incidentally, what is OAD&D? Is that 1E? 2E? Both?

There's a huge confusion of terms when it comes to OD&D, OAD&D, D&D, AD&D, BD&D, etc...

I think it's safe to say though that OAD&D refers only to pre-2e AD&D.

Incidentally, while I agree (and have said on numerous occaisions) that this is all highly subjective, even though populatity may seem to be one of the few quantifiable bits of data out there, popularity and superiority don't necessarily go hand in hand--just look at the operating systems for Macs and PCs (not to start another and all together different debate).

Brand recognition, marketing, and deep-pockets backing can go a long way towards making one product dominant--those darn market externalities!

 

[Tiefling]

So you want a 3E Lite, as others have expressed interest in?

I'm cool with that. You have to recognize that the vast majority of people prefer it to be more like AD&D, with more complex rules, and that WotC has to target this. But it would be cool to have an OD&Dish alternative. Is the D&D Adventure Game anything like this? I must admit that I don't know anything about it, but I was under the impression that it was simplified.

I must disagree that people should be able to buy the 3E core books as is for $20. What was the price of the 1E core books?

 

[Thorvald Kviksverd]

...the Moldvay/Cook B/X sets are too my fave version of the game...

Though the majority of my play was with OAD&D, I'll happily third this.

 

[Storm Raven]

The manager explains that the PH, DMG, and the MM are the essentials, and that everything else is optional.

Or the manager could just explain that unless he plans on running the game as a DM, he just needs to buy the PHB. That's only $30.00, he can pick up the othe rbooks later if he wants to expand his collection.

That's simply outrageous. A person should be able to buy the core rules for $20, and they shouldn't be more than 128 pages long.

Or you could buy the Adenture game starter set and pay $9.00. Your complaints are not particularly compelling.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

When I bought 'em, the 1e PHB and MM were $12 each, the DMG was $15.

 

[Geoffrey]

Or the manager could just explain that unless he plans on running the game as a DM, he just needs to buy the PHB. That's only $30.00, he can pick up the othe rbooks later if he wants to expand his collection.



Or you could buy the Adenture game starter set and pay $9.00. Your complaints are not particularly compelling. [/B]

Well, somebody needs to be DM, so a given group will have to drop $100.00 just to play the game. That's outrageous. Not everybody wants to make a hobby of or devote a small fortune to D&D. A lot of people would like to play six times a year in a "beer and pretzels" style. That's worth $25.00 (game book plus dice). But $100.00? I don't think so. It's only us fanatics who have whole shelves full of D&D stuff.

As for the Adventure game starter set, I am under the distinct impression that you can't play an ongoing campaign with it. The 1981 Molday Basic and Expert rulebooks (total of 128 pages) can easily support a longterm campaign up to 14th level. Hell, with just a bit of tweaking these books could contain info for characters up to 20th level and still weigh in at 128 pages.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

It's just ridiculous when, to simply play a game, you have to drop ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS just to play. Imagine:

Anyone who's seen me post on the subject knows I'm ceratinly no defender of high prices for D&D books, but...

When was the last time you priced board games? Something as ubiquitous and easy to learn as Monopoly will run you at least $30. I've seen plenty of board games go for a lot more than that. And don't even think about minis games.

Playing a sport can get expensive also - ever golf? Fish?

D&D isn't that expensive when you think about it. Besides, plenty of other RPGs are as, if not more, expensive.

If it's too expensive for you, then play the edition you already have and like. As I've said before, the old books weren't printed with time-release invisible ink - at least, my copies weren't struck blank when 3e came out.

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

$100, quite frankly, isn't a lot of money, especially when you consider that you can split the cost among 4-5 people. Yes, the PHB cost $12 20 years ago. How much did it cost to go to a movie 20 years ago? What was the minimum wage 20 years ago? Inflation happens. It costs $15-20 for a CD. Can you honestly say that you don't get twice as much entertainment out of a PHB as you do out of a CD??

 

[GENEWEIGEL]

I just had a lengthy post disintegrated...

ARRRGGHHH!

And it was an apology to Storm Raven for all the aggravation I've given him and his buddies.

Just kidding, I would never apologize to SR!

Seriously I just lost a mega-post explaining the scholarly comment!

Doh!

I am not writing that again. So quickly:

I did not mean scholarly as a "dis" but instead suggesting that the current trend has been to take books as official to be official without question.

Where as someone like myself and other "1e fans" ask what has changed in the rules, the stories or the style that makes everything seem so strange in the Dungeons and Dragon phenomena's current incarnation.

Questions like what happened to the wierd and esoteric feel the game once had and such.

That's all I meant by scholarly. An appreciation of the game's history rather than automatically taking for granted what the latest authors of the game think it is.

I respect Gary Gygax completely for giving us this game and his efforts in its construction.

It's so thoughtful that it eclipses other game types. I'm sure a lot of us feel this way.

A rejection of respect for all the years of work that went into AD&D is a rejection of the thoughtfulness that went into the game.

Therefore unscholarly in method towards what the game is.

A game of thought.

In plain in English, why have a superficial interest in a thing that's going to take up a whole chunk of your time anyway?



Therefore the comment 3e superfans are unscholarly.