AD&D/OSRIC: How did initiative work?

[Argyle King]

I've read through some of the information about OSRIC on Backerkit.

The following descriptions stood out to me:

"...2. Adding Encounter Distance to the combat sequence, per AD&D rules. Not precisely the same method -- the AD&D rules for encounter distance and especially how they interact with surprise are at wargame-level complexity, when they really don't need to be. But encounter distance has been a missing element in OSRIC, so the basic concept is now in there...

...4. Initiative Sequence. The changes here are mostly nuanced, but we are bringing the system closer to the AD&D method of declaring your action at the start. The one 'major' change is that you roll your own side's initiative (1d6, and you go in the stated segment) instead of rolling a die for the 'other' side..."

For those who are familiar with AD&D, can you elaborate on how initiative worked?

Also, what do the above changes mean in the context of AD&D rules?

 

[Stormonu]

From what I remember (it's been at least 30 years, always preferred to use B/X's version):

After checking & handling surprise, the Caller/PCs make a general statement about intended actions and the DM makes a mental note about what the enemy is doing.

Both sides roll 1d6 and the side rolling higher begins acting.

Each "point" of initiative has 10 segments, and each weapon or spell has a note of how many segments it takes to complete an action; your character starts acting on a certain segment (I think 1, but there may be some sort of roll - 1d6 or 1d10) and completes their action when segment + action length is completed. This may mean you are set to complete your action in the next "point" of initiative, and is one way spells could be disrupted or missile attacks fouled by having a melee opponent in your face.

In the case of ties, spells trigger first, then ranged weapons, then melee attacks.

If you have multiple actions in the round, you start dX segments after your last action (I think its d6), and again complete your action based on the weapon's speed.

Each round, repeat from action declaration on.

 

[billd91]

How did 1e AD&D initiative work? Convolutedly. If you distilled it down to just comparing d6s per side in the fight, you were golden. Otherwise, if you tried to incorporate everything, see this link: https://knights-n-knaves.com/dmprata/ADDICT.pdf

 

[Voadam]

It was very complicated and the rules were poorly written and spread out over many places in the PH and DMG so many people ran it in slightly or not so slightly different ways.

Basics was each round declare actions, each side roll a d6 for side initiative, sides go in initiative order with some specific special circumstances such as multiple attacks, spell casting time, ties triggering special rules like weapon speed, attacking someone casting, psionics, etc.

 

[Argyle King]

How did 1e AD&D initiative work? Convolutedly. If you distilled it down to just comparing d6s per side in the fight, you were golden. Otherwise, if you tried to incorporate everything, see this link: https://knights-n-knaves.com/dmprata/ADDICT.pdf

At first, I thought "doesn't seem so bad."

Then, I realized that I was on page 2 of 20.

 

[Voadam]

At first, I thought "doesn't seem so bad."

Then, I realized that I was on page 2 of 20.

Yeah, that starts off with surprise and then pre-initiative things, you don't even get to actual initiative until page 5.

 

[TerraDave]

Surprise could be equivalent to multiple rounds and some tables use weapon and spell speeds on a tie...which might have been official?

There is also the round itself. Does each side just go, or is it broken down by action--range attacks first, then movement, then melee...

 

[overgeeked]

AD&D initiative according to the PHB was simple 1d6 side-based initiative.

It only became a nightmare if you tried to follow every subsequent book and magazine article that fiddled with the system and added mountains of caveats. Like, for example, the ridiculous ADDICT PDF already posted. It's rubbish. It was written from the false and entirely modern assumption that everyone played RAW and obsessively collected every book and magazine article and collated them all together. That's not how people actually played.

 

[billd91]

AD&D initiative according to the PHB was simple 1d6 side-based initiative.

It only became a nightmare if you tried to follow every subsequent book and magazine article that fiddled with the system and added mountains of caveats. Like, for example, the ridiculous ADDICT PDF already posted. It's rubbish. It was written from the false and entirely modern assumption that everyone played RAW and obsessively collected every book and magazine article and collated them all together. That's not how people actually played.

It really doesn't. The vast majority of citations in the ADDICT pdf are for the Players Handbook and the Dungeon Masters Guide. Most of the rest of them point to sources used in the examples of play.

While it may be helpful to stress levels to give up on the DMG's elaboration of initiative in favor of the d6-side based initiative in the PH, that's CLEARLY not the intention of the game overall and doesn't begin to uncover what a convoluted mess 1e AD&D's initiative rules were. Moreover, Gygax didn't even want players to have access to the DMG, so a DM was supposed to administer all of the initiative rules and, if you were a player, you hoped they didn't make a hash of it.
There's a lot of rose-colored views of 1e AD&D's rule books out there - most of them guided by exactly what you're doing here - cutting the rules down to something more manageable rather than using the rules themselves. It's easy to forget how warty the game was when your view specifically excludes the warts.

 

[ThrorII]

No two people can 100% agree on how AD&D initiative worked, but here are my 2 coppers:

After surprise is resolved (that is a WHOLE other post) spell casters must declare their spells.

Both sides rolled a d6, generally high wins initiative and goes first, with the understanding that movement is outside of the initiative process (if you want to move, you can start at segment 1, even if you lost initiative).

EXCEPT>>>>
If a missile weapon user is firing at a spell caster, and lost initiative, the spell caster must still compare their casting time against their own initiative roll. If the casting time is greater than the initiative roll, the missile hits first. If the casting time is less than the initiative roll, then spell goes first. Tied initiative goes to the missile attacker.

If a spell caster is casting against another caster, compare casting times, with lower going first. If casting times are equal, default to initiative order. If CT's are equal, and initiative order is tied, spells are simultaneous.

If a melee attacker is charging a spell caster (melee range is considered within 10 feet in the dungeon and 10 yards outdoors), you must compare the movement time in segments to the casting time. If movement is closed to within 10' before the casting time, melee goes first. If movement is closed to 10' on the casting time segment (3 segments of movement against a 3 segment spell) then default to initiative order. If initiative is tied, it is simultaneous.

If a spell caster is trying to cast WITHIN melee, and the melee attacker lost initiative, determine the absolute value of the Weapon Speed Factor minus the losing initiative roll. If the absolute value is higher than the casting time, the spell goes first. If the ABS value is less than the CT, the melee attack goes first. If initiative is tied, just compare the WSF to the CT, lower goes first.

When it is melee vs. melee, standard initiative is the default. UNLESS one player has multiple attacks, in which case that attacker always goes first AND last, regardless of initiative. If BOTH have multiple attacks, the initiative winner goes first and third, and the loser goes second and fourth. If there is a third extra attack, it goes last.

Melee v. melee when there is no multi-attacks, and the initiative is tied, defaults to Weapon Speed Factors, lower goes first. If the difference between WSF's are large enough, the faster weapon can get multiple attacks.

During a charge, initiative is not used - the longer weapon goes first.