AD&D1 Treasure Types

[Quasqueton]

I never actually used the official treasure type tables in the AD&D1 Monster Manual. I always just placed treasure as I judged appropriate. Compared to the treasure given in official, published AD&D1 modules, I was stingy. Judging from the treasure given in official, published AD&D1 modules, I figured I was probably stingy compared to the treasure type tables too. But I never really knew for certain.

I got curious recently about how the old AD&D1 treasure type tables worked. So I did some calculating and random rolling.

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To start with, I looked at Treasure Type A:
Calculating using a weighted average formula, total treasure value = 32,904.4 gp (not including magic item gp value)

Then I actually rolled on the charts:

Treasure Type A #1 (rolled results)
5,000 cp
3,000 sp
1,000 pp
32 gems (50gp x7, 55gp x5, 500gp x15, 1,000gp x5)*
15 jewelry (900gp x3, 1,000gp x3, 1,400gp x3, 3,000 x3, 5,000 x3)**
Total treasure value = 52,200 gp

Treasure Type A #2 (rolled results)
6,000 sp
5,000 ep
pipes of the sewers
potion of longevity
potion of flying
Total treasure value = 2,530 gp (not including magic item gp value)

* Gems were rolled up in groups of up to 5.

** Jewelry was rolled up in groups of 3.

"Monsters" that have treasure type A: lich (1), locathah (20-200), bandits (20-200), giant squid (1), and troglodytes (10-100).

Treasure Type A gives a 30% chance for "Any 3" magic items. Rolling within that 30% chance for the second record, I was disappointed to roll 2 potions on the full magic item chart

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Then I considered a standard orc lair:

From the AD&D1 Monster Manual:
ORC
NO. APPEARING: 30-300 [plus a couple or three dozen elite-types per the ratios in the MM listing]
TREASURE TYPE: Individuals L; C, O, Q (X 10), S in lair
Calculating using a weighted average formula, total treasure value = 5,626.7 gp (including individual treasure, but not including magic item gp value)

Then I actually rolled on all the charts:

Orc Lair #1 (rolled results)
164 orc warriors
10,000 cp
10 gems (50gp x5, 450gp x5)*
4 potions (plant control, healing, delusion, philter of love)
plus an average of 7 ep on each individual
Total treasure value = 3,124 gp (including individual treasure**, but not including magic item gp value)

Orc Lair #2 (rolled results)
157 orc warriors
1,000 sp
4 gems (100gp x4)*
3 jewelry (5,000gp, 7,000gp, 7,000gp)
7 potions (oil of slipperiness, sweet water, sweet water, giant strength [stone giant], polymorph self, giant strength [cloud giant], giant control [stone giant])
plus an average of 7 ep on each individual
Total treasure value = 19,999.5 gp (including individual treasure**, but not including magic item gp value)

* Gems were rolled up in groups of up to 5.

** I used the average for individual treasure -- I'm not about to roll 2d6 over 300 times.

Notice the different results for the two orc tribes. I figure they must be from opposite sides of the track

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This experiment shows me that trying to figure averages for AD&D1 treasure types is pretty useless. The variation between the calculated averages and actual rolls, and between multiple actual rolls is just so vast.

I want to roll for Treasure Type H, next. All dragons but the lowly white have Treasure Type H. I'd love to roll 10 tests, to see a full spread of results, but rolling on all these charts is just so very complicated and time consuming. For instance, for that first Treasure Type A record, I rolled at least 46 dice (counting d% as 1 die). Forty-six dice! For one treasure hoard. For just the orc tribe populations, I rolled 30d10, twice.

Anyway, having done all this rolling and calculating, I thought I'd share the results with everyone here for discussion.

Quasqueton

 

[Treebore]

I liked the randomness of the treasures, because I liked the challenge of "explaining" to my self how those treasures got there. Which I did by looking at the world map and deciding what would have to be there to make such a treasure hoard even possible.

Resulted in anything from dwarven holds to high value trade routes to "gold rush towns" to secret temples to anything else I cooked up.

 

[tx7321]

I agree with Treebore, the randomness of treasure type lent itself to the unpredictable and chaotic nature of the game (the possibility of extremes). A party could grow rich very quickly. Yet the finding of such wealth was, to a degree, balanced by the deadly random monster tables that were equally unpredictable in their devistation. It was a rare character, in the old days, that lasted a year.

 

[Xyanthon]

When I was younger, I tended to play more fast and loose with the rules. I pretty much ignored the treasure tables and just placed whatever I thought was appropriate. You know, come to think of it, we never awarded XP based on treasure either. It was always by the critters killed and tasks/objectives accomplished (which became the dominant way for us to reward XP).

I think now, I'd tend to stick closer to the 1e RAW and generate treasure from the tables. It can be goofy sometimes but I love it. Although some things such as initiative I'd still have to work around.

 

[kenobi65]

A party could grow rich very quickly.

But, what would they spend it on? IME, GPs back then just sort of accumulated, unless you decided to spend them on building a keep or something. Magic items weren't generally figured to be readily available to be purchased or contracted.

 

[Delta]

This experiment shows me that trying to figure averages for AD&D1 treasure types is pretty useless. The variation between the calculated averages and actual rolls, and between multiple actual rolls is just so vast.

It's not useless, merely incomplete. The one thing I'll add is that a very similar variance occurs in the 3E treasure table if you you use that by the book.

 

[Treebore]

One thinig I think a lot of DM's need to realize is that many feats are like magic items.

My favorite feat to illustrate this is evasion and improved evasion. What level spell can give any character that kind of resistance/immunity to so many spells?

Specialization gives you +1 to hit with any longsword you pick up. Or +2 to damage with any longsword you pick up.

I think realizing this would help a lot of DM's with balance issues.

 

[T. Foster]

Also perhaps worth noting that the Treasure Type tables are only supposed to be used for wilderness encounters that are determined (via the "% in Lair" roll) to take place in/near the creature's lair:

The use of treasure type to determine the treasure guarded by a creature in a dungeon is not generally recommended.

In dungeons, treasure is supposed to be determined based on the level of the dungeon using Table V.G on p. 171 of the 1E DMG (which, in a wonderful example of 1E's famously logical organization, is located not in the section on Placement of Treasure (pp. 91-93) but rather in the appendices, buried among the tables for Random Dungeon Generation ).

 

[Quasqueton]

It's not useless, merely incomplete.

How do you mean? What is incomplete? I don't understand your statement.

Quasqueton

 

[RFisher]

I have to admit to never being very comfortable with the treasure type tables. The 1981 D&D Expert rulebook gave some "average value" figures for some of the treasure types. I tend to just use those figures & a look at the types line as a guideline for picking treasure.