Adamantine and DR

[Black Knight Irios]

But the DR goes away in an antimagic field as well, so I can hit the beasty any way if I role good enough.
But that's not the theme.
My arguments are running out, I could try to turn every word again to let it sound it more favorable for me, as well as you would do, wouldn't you. I can't convince you of my opinion and you can't either. Lets see if someone shows up with a new argument that can convince us either to my side or yours.
OK the fact that it doesn't stack is explicitly stated so it doesn't stack, that was clear from the beginning as with masterwork items and the enhancement boni.

 

[AuraSeer]

A +5 weapon made of normal materials costs 50,000 gp.

A +3 weapon made of adamantine would cost 27,000 gp. If you let the plusses stack, you'd have the same +5 bonus, and a much more durable weapon.

The cheap item should not ever be more powerful than the expensive item. TANSTAAFL.

 

[Kraedin]

Yes. It's natural armor. Moving the words around doesn't change anything, primarily because there's no such thing as a "natural +? armor bonus". Either you have armor or you don't. Either you have natural armor or you don't.

Moving the words around absolutely changes it. A +2 natural enhancement bonus is a +2 bonus of the type "natural enhancement", while a natural +2 enhancement bonus is a +2 bonus of the type "enhancement" that is natural (non-magical). It's vitally important to note in an adamantine debate that adamantine gives an enhancement bonus that is natural, not a "natural enhancement" bonus.

 

[kreynolds]

But the DR goes away in an antimagic field as well, so I can hit the beasty any way if I role good enough.

Right, but I fail to see your point.

My arguments are running out, I could try to turn every word again to let it sound it more favorable for me, as well as you would do, wouldn't you.

I don't "turn words". I just give my opinion.

 

[Kraedin]

Right, but I fail to see your point.

He's just saying that it's not a big deal that an adamantine weapon's enhancement bonus isn't suppressed in an antimagic field, because DR is suppressed as well, so you can penetrate DR regardless.

 

[kreynolds]

Moving the words around absolutely changes it.

Depends on what words you move and where you move them to.

A +2 natural enhancement bonus is a +2 bonus of the type "natural enhancement", while a natural +2 enhancement bonus is a +2 bonus of the type "enhancement" that is natural (non-magical).

Explain to me how the mechanics are different. I showed why I think your argument of natural armor doesn't work out in your favor, and the same goes for this one. I don't see how you are effectively separating the two examples you gave in the above statement. They're the same, just like your natural armor example.

It's vitally important to note in an adamantine debate that adamantine gives an enhancement bonus that is natural, not a "natural enhancement" bonus.

Explain the difference in the mechanics.

 

[kreynolds]

He's just saying that it's not a big deal that an adamantine weapon's enhancement bonus isn't suppressed in an antimagic field, because DR is suppressed as well, so you can penetrate DR regardless.

It is indeed a big deal. See AuraSeer's post.

 

[Kraedin]

A "natural enhancement" bonus doesn't beat DR.
A "natural enhancement" bonus doesn't allow sundering of magic weapons.
A "natural enhancement" bonus doesn't allow you to add weapon special abilities.
A "natural enhancement" bonus doesn't protect a weapon from being sundered.
A "natural enhancement" bonus doesn't increase weapon hardness.
A "natural enhancement" bonus doesn't increase weapon hitpoints.

 

[kreynolds]

A "natural enhancement" bonus doesn't beat DR.

Exactly, thus adamantine does not bypass DR.

 

[Kraedin]

You're either making a joke or missing my point. (It's hard to tell over this blasted contraption.)

Adamantine weapons have an enhancement bonus to attack and damage, and adamantine armor has an enhancement bonus to AC.

For example, the adamantine battleaxe on page 188 of the Dungeon Master's Guide has a "natural +2 enhancement bonus", not a "+2 natural enhancement bonus."