add 1/2 level to ability checks? What? Why?

[PezlerPolychromatic]

As one gains in level,one learns to lift with legs.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

How is that a valid response? He is good at knocking down doors with his strength. Sure, he has plenty of other options. But having those options does not negate the fact that he is in fact really good at it. For no particular reason.

I have never suggested that a strength check is the only or even the best option for dealing with an issue like a stuck door or a portcullis, at that level any number of daily or encounter powers could deal enough damage to destroy the obstruction utterly. But none of that changes the fact that for no reason at all, this guy has gotten far better at lifting heavy objects (without getting any better at lifting light objects).

It seems the 4e answer to any question is just this: "Because." No further elaboration is given.

I guess I'm just wondering why you feel that since mechanics are in place for this that that requires it matter in the game. With the rules written this way, if you want to have a wizard who is good at bashing things you can have one, without dumping a bunch of stat boosts into Str. If you don't want your character to bash things in, then what does it matter that the rules say they're ok at it? Or even if the player wants their character to try occasionally but suck horribly at it, they can remove their bonus. Or not even roll. You shouldn't need a roll to say "My weak wizard throws himself at the door, but it barely shudders and he's thrown to the floor. Fighter, you're up."

And if you're the DM and you don't like the idea of frail wizards lifting portcullises, then use your fiat and say that lifting portcullises doesn't get +1/2 level. You'd have to lower the DCs so the fighter or whomever can still do it, but that should be doable.

The thing with a game system that is as widely played as D&D is that it cannot possibly cover the preferences of everyone who'd like to play it. If the way the rules are written doesn't fit the way you want your game to play, change it to fit. There's probably some part of the game that you like and I don't, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[szilard]

Here are a couple interpretations (which are compatible with each other):

1. Ability checks are an expression not just of your base attribute, but with your skill in applying it. By level 30, a wizard is going to know more about how to use that strength he has effectively than he did at level 1. This is an extension of the fact that ability checks are effectively skill checks for those skills that fall between the cracks.

2. As a wizard increases in level, magic infuses his body. When he knocks down the door, it isn't just with his bare hands... he unconsciously directs magic to bolster his blow. A rogue, on the other hand, knows where to look for the weak spot in the door. He exerts similar force across levels... he just knows how to make it more effective at higher ones...

-Stuart

 

[Nikolai II]

Considerable elaboration, including examples, has been given throughout this thread, you're just choosing to ignore it.

A traditional reaction to responses to ones complaints, when one is on the internet

 

[silentounce]

Here are a couple interpretations (which are compatible with each other):

1. Ability checks are an expression not just of your base attribute, but with your skill in applying it. By level 30, a wizard is going to know more about how to use that strength he has effectively than he did at level 1. This is an extension of the fact that ability checks are effectively skill checks for those skills that fall between the cracks.

2. As a wizard increases in level, magic infuses his body. When he knocks down the door, it isn't just with his bare hands... he unconsciously directs magic to bolster his blow. A rogue, on the other hand, knows where to look for the weak spot in the door. He exerts similar force across levels... he just knows how to make it more effective at higher ones...

-Stuart

And the warlord shouts the door open!

 

[vagabonvoid]

While your ability check goes up, your carrying capacity doesn't.

Yes, you have learned over the levels you have gained how to "force open a ____ porticullus (PHB262)"... This means you can pop it past it's locking point; however, this does not mean you can lift it to the locking point.

A wizard with an 8 strength can deadlift 160 lbs just off the ground. If that iron gate weighs 1000lbs, it doesn't matter if he has a +15 to his strength check, he still isn't going to lift it by himself.

Now on another note, I will accept that said wizard, given an adequate lever and fulcrum may use his strength check and lift said porticullus.

 

[RigaMortus2]

OK, so how does it make sense for someone to gain on ability checks like this as they level? Why is a weak mage more able to lift massive objects as he grows in level, while at the same time the amount of weight he can carry does not change? How does this make sense?

Allow me to explain...

Said Dragonborn Fighter that lifts the gate at level 10 or 20 does so without even breaking a sweat.

Said Mage that lifts the gate at level 10 or 20, may not get it his first shot, but when he does lift it, he'll be sweating.

IOW, the devil is in the details, or how you picture it, or how you choose to describe it. It's not just in the numbers any more.

 

[Rechan]

Okay, it's obvious "1/2 level to checks because" isn't good enough. But let's look at precedence for this:

In 3e, a 20th level wizard with a 10 Con has a +6 to Fort saves. Why? Why does that wizard's body resist physical things like poison better than a 1st level wizard?

The same reason why a 20th level fighter with a 10 Wisdom has a +6 to Will saves: because of his level. Because he is just generally more competent.

But wait! Even if that Fighter went 20 levels without ever having to make a will save, ever, then he still has +6 to Will saves! A 20th level fighter exposed to a Will-save ability for the first time still has a +6 over the same fighter, 19 levels ago.

He's not studied or trained at all to handle that. Why? "Because"? Or because, as he's adventured, he's just received enough general effort to do it?

Or hey, how about Hit Points? A 1st level wizard with a 10 con has 4 hit points. A 20th level wizard is going to have, well, more of that. So why is it that if a 1st level wizard and a 20th level wizard are both are hit with a sword that does 5 damage, the first one is most assuredly going to die, and the second one isn't? Is it because the 20th level wizard's body is sword-resistant? The 20th level wizard has more body to hack away? Oh. It's because of his level, and all those hit points he has. But a weak wizard shouldn't be able to suck up a sword blow for no reason.

 

[Mercule]

And the warlord shouts the door open!

You need to meet an ex-girlfriend of mine. Pretty sure she could.

 

[GeorgeFields]

Okay, it's obvious "1/2 level to checks because" isn't good enough. But let's look at precedence for this:

In 3e, a 20th level wizard with a 10 Con has a +6 to Fort saves. Why? Why does that wizard's body resist physical things like poison better than a 1st level wizard?

The same reason why a 20th level fighter with a 10 Wisdom has a +6 to Will saves: because of his level. Because he is just generally more competent.

But wait! Even if that Fighter went 20 levels without ever having to make a will save, ever, then he still has +6 to Will saves! A 20th level fighter exposed to a Will-save ability for the first time still has a +6 over the same fighter, 19 levels ago.

He's not studied or trained at all to handle that. Why? "Because"? Or because, as he's adventured, he's just received enough general effort to do it?

Or hey, how about Hit Points? A 1st level wizard with a 10 con has 4 hit points. A 20th level wizard is going to have, well, more of that. So why is it that if a 1st level wizard and a 20th level wizard are both are hit with a sword that does 5 damage, the first one is most assuredly going to die, and the second one isn't? Is it because the 20th level wizard's body is sword-resistant? The 20th level wizard has more body to hack away? Oh. It's because of his level, and all those hit points he has. But a weak wizard shouldn't be able to suck up a sword blow for no reason.

So, 4e is taking the faults of previous editions and applying it to everything in the game?