Adding Recharge to PC powers

[pukunui]

Please post tomorrow to tell us how this went. I have a game on Sunday and I think I'm going to try something similar so I am quite interested to see how well this works.

Will do!

Book of Nine Swords had a couple of recharge methods, but they seem too big.

I'm not familiar with the details, but I do remember that some of them were a bit complex -- like the crusader's recharge.

Star Wars Saga has some very interesting ones though - for instance, if you roll a 20 on your 'use the force' check you recover used force powers.

You can also spend a Force Point to get a used force power back. It's probably fair to say that force powers are progenitor to the 4e encounter powers. The main difference is that they all tend to be fairly "big" powers (eg. you can do lots of things with them) and none of them are tied to level. You can also take them more than once. So it's not exactly the same mechanic.

But the point is letting an encounter power recharge by spending an action point in 4e would probably be similar to spending a force point in SWSE to get a force power back.

If I wanted to include it for encounter and daily powers, I might say that if you roll a 20 when using an encounter or daily power you automatically get it back.

I might add that on top. Makes getting a critical even sweeter ... heh heh.

There may be some paragon paths or epic destinies which already do that, in which case they could be given new (better) benefits.

I think you're right, but I'm at work, so I can't check. If I were to go the action point route, I'd have to be careful I didn't tread on the toes of the paragon paths too much, since they all have a "here's something else you can do with action points" feature.

 

[Verision]

How did this go last night, pukunui?

Any problems?

 

[pukunui]

How did this go last night, pukunui?

Any problems?

Nope! Seemed to go well. Not all of the players tried it, but those that did really enjoyed having the chance to use their powers again, especially if they'd previously missed with them. A few of them actually managed to recharge some powers, too, so that was fun for them (and fun for me to watch, too). The eladrin wizard managed to recharge his fey step, which saved his butt, so that was cool. He was very relieved.

The "use it or lose it" rule is key though. The fighter's player wanted to recharge Boundless Endurance so he could use again in a later encounter, but one of my players reminded him about the "use it or lose it" rule (it had slipped my mind at this point). Of course, that doesn't mean he can't try to recharge it during a later encounter but the point is, if you want to recharge something, you've got to use it when it recharges. You can't save it for later. This rule also solves the issue of recharging dailies every short rest (there's no point unless you're actually planning on using the daily during a short rest).

I think it definitely made things more exciting but did not make the PCs gods or anything like that.

 

[Verision]

Nope! Seemed to go well. Not all of the players tried it, but those that did really enjoyed having the chance to use their powers again, especially if they'd previously missed with them. A few of them actually managed to recharge some powers, too, so that was fun for them (and fun for me to watch, too). The eladrin wizard managed to recharge his fey step, which saved his butt, so that was cool. He was very relieved.

The "use it or lose it" rule is key though. The fighter's player wanted to recharge Boundless Endurance so he could use again in a later encounter, but one of my players reminded him about the "use it or lose it" rule (it had slipped my mind at this point). Of course, that doesn't mean he can't try to recharge it during a later encounter but the point is, if you want to recharge something, you've got to use it when it recharges. You can't save it for later. This rule also solves the issue of recharging dailies every short rest (there's no point unless you're actually planning on using the daily during a short rest).

I think it definitely made things more exciting but did not make the PCs gods or anything like that.

That's good to hear. I tried my own variation of Recharge during my session yesterday (the version is what I posted above, with one modification: if they PC recharges a power, then they loose a healing surge to do so. They do not loose a healing surge if they don't regain a power i.e. if they roll 1-4)
It seemed to work pretty well. It only came up in one battle and the only one who used it was the Ranger. He tried 3 times and rolled a 6 once. He regained his most potent daily. It didn't seem to unbalance the fight at all and my players really enjoyed the idea that they can get back powers in long fights so they're not just spamming at-will for 5 rounds.

 

[pukunui]

That's good to hear. I tried my own variation of Recharge during my session yesterday (the version is what I posted above, with one modification: if they PC recharges a power, then they loose a healing surge to do so. They do not loose a healing surge if they don't regain a power i.e. if they roll 1-4)
It seemed to work pretty well. It only came up in one battle and the only one who used it was the Ranger. He tried 3 times and rolled a 6 once. He regained his most potent daily. It didn't seem to unbalance the fight at all and my players really enjoyed the idea that they can get back powers in long fights so they're not just spamming at-will for 5 rounds.

Glad to hear it!

I'm still going to avoid attaching any sort of cost to my recharge mechanic. For one thing, I don't think it's necessary within the context of my group, but also by allowing it to be free, it goes some way towards alleviating some of my simulationist concerns.

Were I to associate a cost with this mechanic, I don't think my players would use it and it still wouldn't really address my concerns. I think the biggest disconnect for me is between the martial powers and the magical ones. Having some sort of cost for recharging magical powers is not an issue. Having to give a little of yourself (a healing surge) to refocus enough magical energy to cast a spell again is fine. However, having to do that in order to "set up" a trick shot or powerful physical strike doesn't make as much sense. But I don't want to make it harder or easier for PCs with a particular power source to use this, so I'm just going to leave it as a freebie for everyone for now.

 

[merchantsteve]

Why not make it a feat?

I've thought long and hard about this. I like the idea of a recharge, but don't like the blanket 'applies to all' approach. It changes the core rules of the game rather than being an exception. Turning the idea into feats creates the specific rules that override the general ones.

Some philosophy

• Inner resolve/will is fickle, but can tap into a recharge easily.
• Character fortitude is more reliable, but has a high cost.
• It costs a character a feat slot to obtain it and can be replaced when paragon and epic tiers offer similar capabilities (like the Astral Rejuvenation Action (Paladin - Astral Weapon)).
• The immediate reaction element restricts the refresh to combat-oriented events rather than just providing a freebie chance to get back a power. If you are winning the fight or not in dire need, why bother?

Heroic Tier Feats

Hero's Resolve
Prerequisites: Charisma or Wisdom 13+
You gain the power refresh feat power when you first exhaust all your encounter and daily powers during combat.

Power Refresh - Feat Power
Encounter * Reliable
Immediate Reaction Personal
Trigger: You are bloodied or become bloodied, miss an attack, or fail a saving throw.
Effect: Once triggered, the power refresh can be attempted each round until a power is refreshed or the combat ends. Roll 1d6: on 45, you can regain a single encounter power you have already used. On a 6, you can regain a single encounter or daily power you have already used.


Hero's Reserve
Prerequisites: Strength or Constitution 15+
You gain the power recharge feat power when you first exhaust all your encounter and daily powers during combat.

Power Recharge - Feat Power
Encounter
Immediate Reaction Personal
Trigger: You are bloodied or become bloodied, miss an attack, or fail a saving throw.
Effect: Once triggered, you can spend a healing surge as a minor action to regain a single encounter power you have already used.

What do you guys think?

 

[jbear]

What about only allowing the recharge roll when the 'Enemy's Spirit is Broken';

Translation: the Fight turns in the party's favour, the enemy can't win but finishing things up could be a real slog fest:
The party senses victory and strikes harder: Allow recharge rolls.

This might add some risk to spamming away all your dailies, clean up the grind faster, and not overly complicate the system you are considering introducing.

 

[merchantsteve]

I like this too, but it is more of a core rules change rather than mechanic within the framework. If I put on my DM hat, this falls more into a technique to move the storyline forward. No mechanic needed for that. I have always run a combat with the mind that the enemy has a mind and will retreat or surrender accordingly.
If we are apply it as a reward for a clever resolution by the party, I find it perfectly within my rights to globally declare that each PC regains 1 daily of their choice (reducing the need for an extended rest).
It then is a matter of DM fiat to give the benefit - which squashes all kinds of abuses by the players. And I really don't mind making such an idea part of my arsenal.

My mechanical treatments are pc-centric and add flair to characters, but they are not overpowered enough to be uber-feats.

When it comes down to it, the recharge can be seen in two ways, as a DM's tool for story flow, and as a character element --- I don't find them to be mutually exclusive. I think I will incorporate both.

 

[pukunui]

If you want to make it a feat, that's cool. I've given up on 4e so it doesn't really matter to me anymore.

 

[CapnZapp]

Re: the suggestion to allow recharginh powers on a Second Wind.

Instead allow it on Total Defense. Otherwise you only get a single chance per encounter.

If you allow it on a Total Defense, that action stops being "doing nothing", you can do it several times in a fight, and it works on Second Wind too (because that action is a Total Defense with a bonus).