Adjudicating Illusions

[Kestrel]

So Ive got a creative player, who likes using his Silent Image spell. While I don't want to stifle his creativity, I've been having trouble with trying to handle the effects of the spell (and illusions in general)

To give an example:
Last night they were fighting a group of Aranea sorcerors. The illusionist casts Silent Image, conjuring up a horde of soldiers running into the room. The silent limitation of the spell was reduced because there was a Silence spell effect where he summoned the image. (but the caster themselves were outside of it)

The way I played it: The aranea needed to interact with the images to get thier saves, so they each launched lightning bolts into the mass of illusionary soldiers. All but one made its save. My problem was, how long does he continue to pay attention to the soldiers?

My main issue is that its a first level spell. How much power do I give to it and how do I rule the limits of its power without making the player feel discouraged?

 

[Li Shenron]

I think that as soon as they made their disbelief save they stop paying attention to them, just like the players would have their PC do.

In this case, the caster has managed to use one 1st level spell + the existing Silence to have the enemies waste some 3rd level spells and one round, which is not a bad benefit.

 

[Kestrel]

What about the one that failed the save? Does he just keep blasting bolts at the troops? (in this case, I had him do that until he was attacked, then he turned on the attacker)

Thats a good rule of thumb though...what would I do if I was a PC?

 

[TheGogmagog]

I believe that silent image creates a (single) image. That's most easily handled by single object, so the horde of soldiers wouldn't be a valid effect. It's a debatable position (a tv produces a single image that can include a stadium of people). but it should resolve some of this.

Aslo they can be an intimidating presence, but as soon as they are attacked the attacker gets the will save. So the caster of the lightning bolt in your example would get a will save to disbelieve the illusion. If you allow the horde, it's still the same illusion not separate effects, so the save would be to recognize all of them.

There are also the rules of the game articles that can provide food for thought even if you disagree with them.
There are also some other discussions on the subject, I'll see if I can locate and post links later on. (I don't think these help but since I've collected them... 185417 and 182178 and 176765

 

[Kestrel]

Thanks Gog, those articles are a good guideline. I need to review the spell a little more carefully, since he uses it often.

 

[Elethiomel]

To give an example:
Last night they were fighting a group of Aranea sorcerors. The illusionist casts Silent Image, conjuring up a horde of soldiers running into the room. The silent limitation of the spell was reduced because there was a Silence spell effect where he summoned the image. (but the caster themselves were outside of it)

Nice creative use of a Silence effect.

However... none of the Aranea sorcerers made their Spellcraft checks? The DC to identify should be DC 16, which an un-leveled Aranea makes on a roll of 14, and one with three levels in Sorcerer (neccessary for Lightning Bolt) and max ranks would make on a 5 or more. If the Araneae were outside the Silence spell, one of them making the Spellcraft check and saying to the others "watch out, he's casting an illusion" would have made it less effective.

Plus, there's the interpretation of "Silent Image" and the limits on its effects, as mentioned earlier.

 

[lukelightning]

If the Araneae were outside the Silence spell, one of them making the Spellcraft check and saying to the others "watch out, he's casting an illusion" would have made it less effective.

Yeah, spellcraft can totally nerf illusions.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Yeah, spellcraft can totally nerf illusions.

...depending on how you run spellcraft. I disagree with the unlimited immediate action checks. The actual action is "not an action", but the DM is allowed to limit similar actions. I also don't see it as an immediate action. I see spellcraft and knowlege checks as a free action that's performed on the character's turn when they act, and would also limit it to one per turn. If you are fighting two spellcasters, when it rolls around to your turn you can declare to make a spellcraft check against one of the two spells cast the previous round, but not both. That's my ruling (or house rule if you prefer) for what it's worth.

Usually it's obvious, for example they cast fireball, or summon monster, or summon horde of soldiers.... 'hey wait a minute, can I make a spellcraft check against that last one?'. It should be an active thing the character performs. The players need to remember to ask, the DM needs to remember to make the check AND decide if it's something the NPC would question. In a world with spells like summon monster and silence available at low levels, how much would you question a silent dire badger from a mage that's still green behind the gills.

 

[jasin]

Thats a good rule of thumb though...what would I do if I was a PC?

It's similar for charms. It can be annoying in a competitive situation; for example we have a player who effecitvely has resistance to charm since if he happens to get charmed, he'll argue that he'd never give the succubus his +2 holy sword, because he'd never do it for one of the PCs either, and they're his trusted friends and allies, just like the succubus who has him charmed.

But if used creatively and cooperatively (in the sense of cooperation rather competition between player and DM), illusions can be both fun and powerful. Like using a 1st-level spell to make a group of enemies waste and action casting lighting bolts into nothing. It's like mass daze and drain 3rd-level slot, no save, no SR!

Edit: I think he deserved it, though. Using an existing silence with silent image like that is like havin an Empowered fireball just at the moment when you run into a frost giant. Seizing an opportunity like that should have a nice payoff.

 

[jasin]

Yeah, spellcraft can totally nerf illusions.

Maybe illusions should come with a built in way to be harder to identify by spellcraft. Perhaps normal DC or the casters spellcraft check, whichever is higher?