iserith
Magic Wordsmith
I'm just going to leave this here...
That goes without saying and still smells of an assumption being made about whether the DM in the example had the buy-in of his players to adjudicate in that fashion.
I'm just going to leave this here...
You have given no reason why said resolution mechanic was used instead of the mechanic specifically designed and written for exactly this situation. There is nothing in the proposed scenario that would indicate that THIS situation called for DM fiat (written down or not, that's what this is). Please provide chapter and verse (aka "show your work") which the DM can point to that is something other than "The DM thought this would be more interesting." Because, if there is no specific, written rule specifying that in THIS situation this, different ruling makes more sense, it is just the DM acting on a whim. Also, It is nice to see you take ownership - much more honest than the "I have no vested interest - I'm just asking a question..." stance. FYI Use just the information provided in the example scenario.1. I didn't make up or change a rule. I applied a resolution method from the DMG. As previously stated, it might be more interesting to have another setback instead or to offer it as a choice, but that's easily remedied. The larger point stands.
Is that supposed to be an insult? We're discussing rules to a TTRPG in an online forum. We're all nerds. I happen to be a math nerd, a language/grammar nerd, a film nerd, a sci fi/fantasy nerd, and an RPG nerd. Please illustrate (aka "show your work") where we "math nerds" disagree.2. Math nerds disagree on whether it's a bad deal for the fighter.
How the DM and the Players in the example feel is completely irrelevant at your request:3. It is not established in the example whether or not the DM said they are applying Success at a Cost. For all we know, the DM uses it frequently and the players in the example love it. I think a lot of people are seeing things only through the lens of their bias with regard to this point.
You didn't ask us how the hypothetical DM and players felt. You asked what we thought and how we felt. We told you. Now your telling us we are wrong, biased, and have accused some of us (you did not specify who) of having an "agenda".What do you think of this DM's ruling? Do the rules support such a ruling? How would you take it if you were playing the fighter? Would you prefer to be given a choice of missing outright or doing damage but opening yourself up to a reaction attack? What if the fighter missed by more than two?
You have given no reason why said resolution mechanic was used instead of the mechanic specifically designed and written for exactly this situation. There is nothing in the proposed scenario that would indicate that THIS situation called for DM fiat (written down or not, that's what this is). Please provide chapter and verse (aka "show your work") which the DM can point to that is something other than "The DM thought this would be more interesting." Because, if there is no specific, written rule specifying that in THIS situation this, different ruling makes more sense, it is just the DM acting on a whim. Also, It is nice to see you take ownership - much more honest than the "I have no vested interest - I'm just asking a question..." stance. FYI Use just the information provided in the example scenario.
Is that supposed to be an insult? We're discussing rules to a TTRPG in an online forum. We're all nerds. I happen to be a math nerd, a language/grammar nerd, a film nerd, a sci fi/fantasy nerd, and an RPG nerd. Please illustrate (aka "show your work") where we "math nerds" disagree.
You didn't ask us how the hypothetical DM and players felt. You asked what we thought and how we felt. We told you. Now your telling us we are wrong, biased, and have accused some of us (you did not specify who) of having an "agenda".
1. Said buy-in was not specified - and is completely irrelevant. You asked what we thought and how we would feel.That goes without saying and still smells of an assumption being made about whether the DM in the example had the buy-in of his players to adjudicate in that fashion.
I believe that D&D's combat rules came out of miniature war games, and as a result are very fictionally abstract. No one is going to spend the time to narrate the actions of every spearman on the line! Because of that, D&D has never made the details of what your character does important to combat resolution: "I attack with my greatsword" is all you need to say. This is by design, as far as I can tell; out of combat you describe how exactly you open or find that secret door, but in combat you don't. It puts the focus of the game on exploration, one of the reasons XP for GP works well. Once you start asking or providing more detail the combat system begins to break down: called shots, damage on a miss, breaking bones and otherwise maiming characters, etc.
Exploration and social interaction has always been more fictionally concrete: you can describe exactly what your PC is doing and the DM can narrate the results.
There are no called shots in the game as written AFAIK, and with the abstract AC and HP mechanics I don't think such things would work at all. Others may find a way they enjoy but that's the beauty of a tabletop RPG.
As the DM, I ask for a check when the resolution of an action is uncertain. A player was looking for something suspicious on a bookshelf, so I asked for an Investigation check to notice the hidden switch, which failed. Another player started pulling all of the books from the shelf, which automatically triggered the switch, so no check was needed.Do you overtly ask to make checks?
Particularly with Deception, I would expect a check to be required every time (unless my bonus to the check was high enough that it couldn't possibly fail to beat the king's passive Insight). There's always a chance that you could fail, because your ability to deceive hinges upon the king's ability to be deceived.If you lie to the king, do you expect that because you lied it necessarily demands a Charisma (Deception) check?
If I don't roll, the DM will prompt me to roll. If I consistently don't roll after declaring an attack, the DM is likely to become upset since I'm wasting time in a situation where everyone clearly knows what is expected. Everyone knows the rules for combat. They are extremely cut-and-dried, with very little room for DM intervention.If you say you attack, do you automatically make an attack roll without prompting?
It sounds like my check was high enough to beat the king's passive Insight, but not high enough to beat his adviser's Insight. This is one of the obvious outcomes, and I would probably attempt to act on my Deception before the adviser could advise the king to not listen to me (depending on the circumstances of my Deception, of course).Let's say you lie to the king, the DM calls for a Charisma (Deception) check and you blow that check by one or two. The DM narrates the outcome as: "The king appears to believe you, but his corrupt yet wise council adviser eyes you coldly and whispers something to his page who leaves the room immediately without looking at you. What do you do?"