D&D 3E/3.5 Adjusting 3.0 PrCs to fit 3.5e

[Pazu]

So I've started contemplating what adjustments need to be made to the entry requirements for various 3.0 prestige classes. I think most of them are more or less unchanged, although changes to the core classes may make it easier for some to qualify.

I've started wondering, however, what to do with PrCs that require ranks in skills that don't exist anymore.

For instance, the Royal Explorer needs 8 ranks in Intuit Direction, and 5 ranks in Wilderness Lore. Since both of these are rolled into Survival, I'm inclined to just change this to 8 ranks in Survival, which seems simple enough. This does mean you can get into the PrC with somewhat less of a skill point expenditure (although I still don't know if anyone would bother with this class. )

It's a little harder for PrCs like the Divine Oracle, whose entry requirements all hinge on a skill that doesn't exist anymore. How would folks handle this one?

-- Pazu

 

[cerberus2112]

Divine Oracle

Require the ability to cast Scrying.

 

[Pazu]

Re: Divine Oracle

Require the ability to cast Scrying.

Makes good sense.

I do wonder, however, how that would balance the supposed "investment" factor for PrC qualification; the whole idea that a character has to take a certain number of "suboptimal" skill ranks or feats in order to gain the benefits.

IIRC, the Divine Oracle required Scry: 10 ranks and Skill Focus: Scry, which is a fairly large chunk of skill points plus a feat. Changing that to simply requiring the ability to cast Scrying makes qualifying for the class much less of a sacrifice.

OTOH, I'm not sure how much of a difference it would really make, over the long run...

-- Pazu

 

[bret]

If you change the Royal Explorer to just require Survival, it makes it almost impossible for Rogues to qualify.

Previously, Rogues had Intuit Direction as a class skill. The Wilderness Lore would have to be bought cross class. Since I think that the PrC comes from Song & Silence, it would be bad to make it require a 13th level rogue just to qualify for the PrC.

Perhaps it would be better to require 4 ranks in Diplomacy and Survival. One is cross-class for Rangers, the other for Rogues. Those were the two obvious classes for that PrC.

As for the Divine Oracle question, not sure how I would convert that. Has anyone seen the Conversion Guide? Maybe that would have a suggestion.

 

[the Jester]

As I understand it, the conversion guide only gives the skinny on the hardbacks, and not even all of them- MM2, FF, DDG, ELH, MotP... er... I think that's it.

 

[youspoonybard]

Yeah, the Revision guide is lacking when it comes to non-epic DMG PrC's.

I'd probably go Spellcraft and Skill Focus: Spellcraft for the Oracle.

 

[Chun-tzu]

If you change the Royal Explorer to just require Survival, it makes it almost impossible for Rogues to qualify.

Previously, Rogues had Intuit Direction as a class skill. The Wilderness Lore would have to be bought cross class. Since I think that the PrC comes from Song & Silence, it would be bad to make it require a 13th level rogue just to qualify for the PrC.

Perhaps it would be better to require 4 ranks in Diplomacy and Survival. One is cross-class for Rangers, the other for Rogues. Those were the two obvious classes for that PrC.

This is a good point. Conversions shouldn't penalize characters; if a Rogue could previously qualify at, say, 5th level, then he should still be able to qualify at the same level after conversion.

Adding Diplomacy as a pre-req isn't necessary, though. The Royal Explorer required 5 ranks in Decipher Script, 8 in Intuit Direction, 8 in Profession cartographer, and 5 in Wilderness Lore (plus Alertness and Endurance).

Looking at the class, I think it's weak. A rogue gives up all sneak attack advancement, for 10 levels, which IMHO is a terrible choice. A ranger gives up good BAB. A bard gives up all spell advancement. The class offers nothing that's fair compensation for these losses. These are the 3 classes most likely to become Royal Explorers.

Thus, I'd be inclined to be kind in converting the requirements: 5 ranks in Decipher Script, 8 in Profession, 5 in Survival, and the 2 feats.

 

[Chun-tzu]

Re: Re: Divine Oracle

IIRC, the Divine Oracle required Scry: 10 ranks and Skill Focus: Scry, which is a fairly large chunk of skill points plus a feat. Changing that to simply requiring the ability to cast Scrying makes qualifying for the class much less of a sacrifice.

I agree. Don't give away levels of this class as a freebie (i.e., no cost). It offers full spell advancement, so it's a good one.

I'd change the skill requirement to 10 ranks in Knkowledge Arcana. This makes Clerics pay a cost for the class (Clerics get Knowledge Arcana as a class skill in 3.5). I'd also add the Loremaster requirement of 7 different divination spells, and one must be the Scry spell. This is the wizard/sorcerer cost. The flavor text of the Divine Oracle specifies "a particular devotion to the Divination school of magic."

As for the feat requirement, I guess I'd switch it to Skill Focus: Knowledge Arcana, but I'd be willing to let another more appropriate divination-focused d20 feat instead. I don't see anything in the list of revised PHB feats.

 

[Li Shenron]

Re: Re: Divine Oracle

I do wonder, however, how that would balance the supposed "investment" factor for PrC qualification; the whole idea that a character has to take a certain number of "suboptimal" skill ranks or feats in order to gain the benefits.

IIRC, the Divine Oracle required Scry: 10 ranks and Skill Focus: Scry, which is a fairly large chunk of skill points plus a feat. Changing that to simply requiring the ability to cast Scrying makes qualifying for the class much less of a sacrifice.

Sorry if it may stray far from the main topic... don't worry too much if the cost to qualify becomes less expensive. I think that a good designed PrCl does not set "wasted" requisite but rather requisites that make sense for the idea of the PrCl.
The DO requirements used to imply that you have to be a top "scryer", but also that you would kept on being. IMHO to spend a feat in Skill Focus makes best sense if you are also maxing the ranks, so that requisite should keep you increasing Scry after qualifying as well. Which is in line with the idea that the DO is great in that.

The requirements of being able to cast Scrying is very fine. Just try to keep the same minimum level to qualify, for ex by requiring Kno(Religion) OR Kno(Arcana) 10, or otherwise Spellcraft 10. You could substitute Skill Focus (Scry) with Spell Focus (Divination), which will now give a +1 DC to Will save vs Scrying.
Don't be to focused in requiring something unuseful anyway

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

Well I plan to start a thread in General Discussion. It might get moved back here. Anyway, I think I will try to convert a PrC every couple of days, at people's request of course. Not sure whether WotC would mind this, but if they start complaining then it really isn't fair. Many PrCs need changes, and I think it would be nice as a community to develop an update for them. Thread will go up in a few hours when I get home. Nominations for the first class please?