D&D 5E Adjusting to 1 encounter per Day: Putting the XP Budget into a single fight

[Maxperson]

So with all the talk of game balance of late, something that keeps coming back up is the notion that players that get to rest more often and fight less encounters in a day will find challenges easier than a party that gets the full 6-8 encounters.

So the real question is: Well how much more can a party take on?

So we could start with a simple premise: What if the DM just pushes the entire daily adventuring budget into a single encounter. Aka its expected the party will go hog wild, throw every bit of juice....and be completely spent by the end. So what would that look like in terms of challenge?

So lets take 4 level 7 characters. They have a daily adventuring budget of 20,000. So here are some example challenges that would fit their entire budget. I had to go a bit under or over much of the time, as often adding just one more of almost any monster just shoots the encounter XP way up.

• A Demilich (CR 18)
• Two Young Red Dragons (CR 10) - 17.7k
• 3 Githyanki Knights (CR 8) - 23k
• 4 Mind Flayers (CR 7) - 23k
• 5 Flesh Golems (CR 5)
• 8 Black Puddings (CR 4) - 22k
• 200 NPC Guards (CR 1/8)

So just taking a look, what do people think? Do you generally feel like these would be really challenging encounters for such a party who is going "all out"? Would this crush them into the dirt, would you expect them to win with no problems?

If this produces reasonable results it might be the way to go for people who just want to do 1 "big combat" a day, and help them understand what you really need to throw out to challenge such a party.

If they don't have magic weapons, that Demilich would wreck them. With it, it will still likely wreck them. Their best bet might be the guards if they lack magic weapons.

Edit: I've been the victim of a thread necro, albeit one that hasn't been dead as long as many I've seen raised.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

If they don't have magic weapons, that Demilich would wreck them. With it, it will still likely wreck them. Their best bet might be the guards if they lack magic weapons.

Edit: I've been the victim of a thread necro, albeit one that hasn't been dead as long as many I've seen raised.

Only a couple months. Besides, it sure beats the "Rawr! That's not roleplaying! Thread, eh?" lol. Anyway, I think being 7th level and meeting 2 Red Dragons would really bite. Happened to one of our parties around that level. There was literally zero effective response (it was out in the wilderness) except "run and hide while it takes all our stuff." I never was sure exactly what the point of that sort of encounter is...

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Only a couple months. Besides, it sure beats the "Rawr! That's not roleplaying! Thread, eh?" lol. Anyway, I think being 7th level and meeting 2 Red Dragons would really bite. Happened to one of our parties around that level. There was literally zero effective response (it was out in the wilderness) except "run and hide while it takes all our stuff." I never was sure exactly what the point of that sort of encounter is...

Clearly to take your stuff

 

[Maxperson]

Only a couple months. Besides, it sure beats the "Rawr! That's not roleplaying! Thread, eh?" lol. Anyway, I think being 7th level and meeting 2 Red Dragons would really bite. Happened to one of our parties around that level. There was literally zero effective response (it was out in the wilderness) except "run and hide while it takes all our stuff." I never was sure exactly what the point of that sort of encounter is...

Two red dragons would absolutely bite.

 

[Redwizard007]

the issue is that 200 people can’t all attack one person. I believe that in 5e it is 8 Medium creatures can in theory surround one Medium creature. So, it is likely that each member would face no more than 8 attacks per round, potentially fewer.

if that is the case, the PCs can fight for a few rounds at least and the odds become more and more in there favor.

Since the thread is already back up and running...

8 medium creatures can surround each player at any one time, but since movement can happen at any time in your turn, dozens of creatures could have the opportunity to attack each PC each round. Adding a missle weapon to the NPCs would make this virtually unwinnable for the PCs.

 

[Marc_C]

the issue is that 200 people can’t all attack one person. I believe that in 5e it is 8 Medium creatures can in theory surround one Medium creature. So, it is likely that each member would face no more than 8 attacks per round, potentially fewer.

if that is the case, the PCs can fight for a few rounds at least and the odds become more and more in there favor.

If you have a second rank with halberds (reach) 24 people can attack a single character.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Since the thread is already back up and running...

8 medium creatures can surround each player at any one time, but since movement can happen at any time in your turn, dozens of creatures could have the opportunity to attack each PC each round. Adding a missle weapon to the NPCs would make this virtually unwinnable for the PCs.

If you have a second rank with halberds (reach) 24 people can attack a single character.

My response to both of these would be to state that either situation seems HIGHLY unrealistic. Imagine what dozens of attackers running past your PC taking a swing each round would imply. This kind of 'Conga Line' would require all 200 opponents to enact a level of choreography never achieved in the real world! It is simply ridiculous. I mean, OK, if they are all controlled by a single mind flayer or something, maybe...

Likewise being pig stuck by 24 opponents, while it might technically be feasible under the rules (honestly, since 5e doesn't define any sort of 'grid' I'm not sure how you come to this conclusion to start with) but it SEEMS pretty unrealistic to me. My understanding of 5e's rules is that they don't have hard and fast RULES for stuff like this, and that the GM should be looking at the situation and determining what actually makes sense.

That being the case, 200 guards does sound like a PITA. OTOH its another of those tactical situations. If it is the right situation, or the PCs can recontextualize the conflict and put it in their own terms, then they should win easily.

 

[Marc_C]

Likewise being pig stuck by 24 opponents, while it might technically be feasible under the rules (honestly, since 5e doesn't define any sort of 'grid' I'm not sure how you come to this conclusion to start with) but it SEEMS pretty unrealistic to me. My understanding of 5e's rules is that they don't have hard and fast RULES for stuff like this, and that the GM should be looking at the situation and determining what actually makes sense.

5e has rules for playing with a grid. As usual they are in the DMG not the PHB. Grab a sheet of grid paper and count the squares, you'll get it.

 

[Lyxen]

5e has rules for playing with a grid. As usual they are in the DMG not the PHB. Grab a sheet of grid paper and count the squares, you'll get it.

While it's one way to go about it, another one is to actually picture the situation in your mind and for the players, and to allow what seems reasonable, in particular taking into account what can be expected of the troops attacking the character in terms of coordination. So yes, maybe modrons mentally coordinated by a hierarch could allow that level of coordination, but simple guards would be hard pressed doing it even partially, and goblins or orcs would be absolutely unable to pull it off.

As a reminder, while there are grid options in the PH, completed in the DMG, the standard set-up of 5e is TotM, and it has simple guidelines about how many creatures of a given size can gather around a given enemy, without using a grid, and at the same time avoiding what could be considered immmersion breaking tactics of 200 adversaries running in a coordinated ballet around a single target (Assuming Medium combatants, eight creatures can fit in a 5-foot radius around another one).

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

5e has rules for playing with a grid. As usual they are in the DMG not the PHB. Grab a sheet of grid paper and count the squares, you'll get it.

I'm familiar with grids, trust me. Not arguing about how many squares or hexes fall within some area of a grid. I am merely pointing out that 5e is not a wargame, and its rules are not intended to be followed in a slavish manner. It talks about grids, yes, but they should be seen as merely an aid to play, if your GM wants to use them. So, the question is STILL "is it realistic for 24 people to be able to attack one guy, even with long weapons?" IMHO the answer is 'no', but its definitely an opinion, just one formulated by considering what I've seen in real life. So, even assuming that it might be physically possible, with tight choreography to get 24 attacks on a single medium sized target, is that really at all realistic? I doubt it, just from viewing things like American Football, Rugby, or SCA mass combats. Real combat is pretty messy and even pros are unlikely to maximize their opportunities THAT much.