Adult: GUCK Development Forum again

[Death By Surfeit]

The alignment modifiers were bound to be a little hazy, as we haven't finalised that section. When adding that in, I presumed we were working on the Hetero/Bi-Hetero/Bi/Bi-Homo/Homo lateral alignment system, where Heteros would incur -4 when stimulated by someone of the same sex, Bi-Heteros would have a -2 penalty, and suchlike for the Homo alignments.

I'm afraid I won't be available to post until late Saturday (researching for my tickling spree), so I expect lots of feedback, suggestions and contributions as a welcoming gift.

Cheerio,

DbS

 

[Sorn]

DbS... that's what I figured on the alignment issue.

Other than that, everything looks very solid. I'd say we move on to the next item(s) in the list.

I agree that the sexual aligment as well as the kinks/fetishes/frets should be next, as they tie directly into the core mechanics. While the other chapters are dependant on the core mechanics, the above items directly affect modifiers therein, so we should get that squared away.

 

[Sorn]

DbS... that's what I figured on the alignment issue.

Other than that, everything looks very solid. I'd say we move on to the next item(s) in the list.

I agree that the sexual aligment as well as the kinks/fetishes/frets should be next, as they tie directly into the core mechanics. While the other chapters are dependant on the core mechanics, the above items directly affect modifiers therein, so we should get that squared away.

For the unsuitable/incompatible alignment modifiers.

First off, how about we call it Orientation. This way there won't be any confusion with the standard alignment, plus people won't expect a Homo-Neutral, Hetero-Evil or Bi-Good character.

Here's my proposed table to illustrate unsuitable/incompatible combos:


Partner of Same Sex/Opposite Sex
Hetero: I/C
bi(hetero): U/C
bi: C/C
bi(homo): C/U
homo: C/I

I: Incomplatible, C: Compatible, U: Unsuitable

Thoughts?

 

[Death By Surfeit]

First off, I'd better apologise unabashedly for claiming that I wouldn't be available to post for another two days. Unfortunately for you all, I am.

Sorn: The reason I had originally coined the term 'alignment' harks back from the endless days spent typing away at the DbS conversion (how little changes...), wherein characters had a lateral alignment (or orientation) but also a primal aspect (a rough indication of someone's drive), measured as Indulgent, Moderant, or Abstinent.

Your suggestions for the unsuitability/incompatibility, by the way, are spot on with what I'd originally envisaged. I'll second everything you wrote.

For the purposes of rules text, an unsuitable alignment is technically suitable, but in a given situation somene will always choose a Compatible partner over an Unsuitable one.

VVrayven: I'd like to hear your new Carnal Arts, alongside anything you can come up with relating to the current guide or the topics we're currently embarking on. Type away...

Everyone: Please, please contribute whatever you can. I'm able to post more often nowadays (about twice a day), so lets get things up to speed. Listings of kinks, new rules or flavour text,suggestions for the posted guide, revisions and flaws are all paramount for progress, so peel your eyes away from the televisions, forget pertinent issues and GET TYPING!

DbS

NB. Yes, yes, I know. I've managed to replicate the 'Lore of the Tantric Ancients Int typo' in this version as well. Forgive me, if you can.

 

[Sorn]

DbS: Ahh... makes sense on the alignment naming. The only problem I see with the primal aspect is that aside from Abstinent, this might fluctuate from day to day and availability of partners. Someone could be very indulgant and go to orgies every other day, but due to a bad back and the death of her grandmother, she is currently abstinent. Alignment changes (even sexual ones) shouldn't occur frequently. I think the Primal aspect could easier be handled with kinks and frets. E.g. Indulgant would become Kink: Nympho/Satyr, Moderate would be the norm, Abstinence would be Fret: Sex-In-General.

 

[VVrayven]

Heya guys.

I'd like to hear your new Carnal Arts, alongside anything you can come up with relating to the current guide or the topics we're currently embarking on. Type away...

Sure thing, hun.

I only have one done right now, though I have another Int based one coming right up! I know this one is a little off standard, but maybe it will help a little? Let me know what you all think.

Feat: Sexual Practice
Prereqs: 3 Ranks Prowess.
Benefit: Unlike other Carnal Art forms, this is a simplistic version representing long experience and self training of sexual practices. As you gain in ranks of prowess. A sexually practiced character can selected one of the abilities below at 3 ranks, 6 ranks, 9 ranks, 12 ranks, and 15 ranks.

Teasing Lover: (9 Ranks)
You can keep your partner on the edge of ecstacy. Activated after any prowess check. If you succeed in raising your partner's arousal, you may instead keep them at their current level or any level in between your successful prowess roll. If this effect is used to keep a partner in peaked status by denying them an orgasm, they must make a will save against DC 15 or suffer 1d4 temporary wisdom damage.

Sexual Expertise: (3 Ranks)
You are adept at pleasuring your partner at the expense of your own concentration. Activated as a free action. For the rest of the session you may choose to subtract a number (up to -5) from your Fortitude save to resist pleasure and add it to your prowess check (up to +5). This bonus/penalty lasts for the entire round and may be set again in the next round.

Responsive: (3 Ranks)
You can shift your effots to make your body more responisve to attentions. Activated as a free action. For the rest of the session you may choose to subtract a number (up to -5) from your prowess checks and add it to your partners prowess checks (up to +5). This bonus/penalty lasts for the entire round and may be set again in the next round.

Resist Pleasure: (6 Ranks)
Fighting off your partner's attentions at the slight expense of your own can help you last longer. For the rest of the session you may choose to subtract a number (up to -5) from your prowess checks and add it to your Fortitude saves to resist pleasure (up to +5). This bonus/penalty lasts for the entire round and may be set again in the next round.

Sexual Endurance: (3 Ranks)
You can last longer in bed than most. This ability can be selected more than once. Each time it is select ONE of the following benefits can be gained:
Withstand 2 orgasms before fatigue (male only).
Withstand Con Mod x 2 orgasms before fatigue (female only).
Withstand Con Mod x 2 orgasms before exhuastion (male only).
Withstand Con x 2 orgasms before exhaustion (female only).
Half subdual damage from orgasms while exhuasted.

Quick Withdrawl: (6 Ranks, 9 Ranks for females)
This grants a 50% chance to prevent pregnacny from intercourse by withdrawing before ejaculation or pulling away before your partner climaxes. If both partners possess this ability, the chance is increased to 75%.

Delay Orgasm (6 Ranks, 9 Ranks for males)
You can resist the urge to cliamx. Any time your fail a save to resist rising to climax (but not estascitc) you activate this ability as a free action an resist climaxing. Your status becomes peaked.

Multi-Orgasmic: (6 Ranks, females only)
And time an attempt to make you climax (or more) exceeds the target DC by 5 points or more, you instead have multiple orgasms. You will climax for 1d6 rounds suffering the effects per round and as long as your partner keeps simulating you at a DC 5. This use of the ability does not require expendature of an abilty use. However, a woman an induce a multiple orgasm at any time during climax by expending an ability use.

Quick Recovery: (6 Ranks, males only)
After becoming unable to perform after climax. A man can make a Fortitude save, DC 15, if successful, he may become arousded again as normal, though he still suffers from fatigue. This use of the ability does not require expendature of an abilty use. However, a man can instantly become ready again by expending an ability use.

Stay Tuned for the (Int) Based, Art of the Brilliant Caress.

 

[VVrayven]

Hi all! Well, I've had a chance to read through most of it now. <puts on her editorial cap>

I will try to go in order.

1) I think there should be a synergy bonus from prowess to all Spot and Sense Motive checks to notice the presence of arousal both mental and physical.

2) The Delerious Status condition states that the person fails ALL saves. I believe this should read, fails all reflex and will saves (and I'm reluctant to say will save too) maybe this should just be autofail refelx with a penalty to will saves. Also, you have to make a will save every round in this condition (and that doesn't auto fail right?)

3) I truly believe the penalty listed for unwilling should read "from 1 to 20 or even higher depending on the setting".

4) Big Question!

Okay, Prowess checks are made in order to "inflict" pleasure on a person or object (or self), correct? Alright, then our Prof. system needs some tweaking...

We have Prof. listed such as Sodomy (recieve)... Well, what does this mean? Does this mean a person being penetrated can only use this on themselves? Plus, from what I have heard, their is as much an art to giving as in recieving when sodomy is concerned, so... Sodomy (thrusting) should be a Prof. as well.

This also leads to the question of what does DSM do? If I ask my partner to be dominating and I like to be submissive, we can do it all night and not get anywhere. It helps me get aroused.... but the acts themselves don't stimulate me. So what does making a prowess check for "submission" do? I'm not using Prof in touching, caressing, oral, or anything else, so how does this help to stimulate my partner? I really think this is a problem with our hard-focus specific system.

DSM and Bondage don't actually stimulate, they AIDE in the stimulation by using ANOTHER Prof... So something needs to be tweaked here. Even the +10 DC mod doesn't really help it make sense.

5) How are mutliple prowess checks resolved against one person? I.E. If two people pleasure a girl, do they both use her current status? Do the checks stack or act individually? My gut says individual checks, but consider this, two partners with +2s might have a much higher chance of simulating you to the next arousal level, rather than their indivdual chances... I know If I stimulate myself at the same time as a partner does to me, our combinded efforts get be aroused MUCH faster...

6) In describing the Arousal DCs the sentence should read: "and the ones on the right ARE the female ones."

7) Can a partner who is being penetrated and using a free action to reflexivily stimulate their partner use a second prowess check at no penalty to their partner or themselves???

8) I think we need modifiers for MOOD in the circumstance area. The posititive "Turned On" stuff is hadnled by the status conditions. The negative "Turned OFF" stuff can't/shouldn't all be covered by Unwilling.

9) Clothing modifiers. I like my step system, but if everyone thinks this is too complex, we need a set of 2 or three clothing modifiers.

10) Gender Bias in the Prof. DC Table???

Alright. Should we modify the DCs at all in this table for gender. I only ask this because in my experience it is far easier to get a female to climax through ONLY gentle touches than it is to get a man off in this fashion. Giving Sodomy is almost always pleasing for the thruster (so I've heard. ) but is only sometimes for the reciever. I know I don't prefer it, but it isn't nearly as stimulating and yet it has a +0 mod climax and only a +2 to peak? Is is just as easy for a gay man in the recieving end to get off like this? Just my thoughts at the moment...

11) I'm confused by the statement at the end of the Exhuasted rules: "Each round of Ecstasy in this state deals sufficient subdual damage to render the character unconscious, plus an additional point of subdual damage per HD." So does this mean if you are level 10 and exhausted and have an estacy orgasm... you die? Say 50 hp, you take 50 in subdual and then an additional 10 subdual leaving you at -10... Which does kill you by the core rules, does it not?

12) In Size Matters.... "The owner of the phallus may also be damaged – where the difference is one-and-a-half size categories or more, the owner of the phallus receives damage as if the difference was one size category than it actually is." seems to be missing a word.

13) In Size matters under larger still... I think it should read: "All pain, no gain. Concerted attempts simply incur damage as if two sizes larger with NO SAVE possible: see above."

14) I think it should read EROTIC feats, not EXOTIC feats, no?

>hugs> DbS you have done a fantastic job! <blows a kiss> I've got three surprises coming up for you later today.

 

[DrAltaica]

Shouldn't sexual aligment Andro/Gyno instead of Hetero/Homo? I mean isn't that male barbarian still going to purfur females even after you ast change sex on him?

"By clicking the Agree button, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws." ....

 

[Gez]

4) Regarding Carnal Arts: Gez, whilst your suggestions are fitting, they have real ramifications for low level characters (anyone besides a monk would be effectively denied the Immaculate Forms, for example). Whilst it may deviate from the flavour of Martial Arts, I am wholly in favour of specific-feat Carnal Arts – you pay for what you get, and get what you pay for. That way nobody is denied Carnal Arts because they don’t have the extensive requisite feats, and neither do they receive a Carnal Art they didn’t work toward or desire for their character.

I object. First, it was a proposal; if prerequisites are deemed too high, they may be lowered. (The immaculate form art was very monk-like in its flavor text, and didn't seemed something easy to learn.) Furthermore, I don't see requiring one feat (usually among a choice of 2) as standard as skill focus, endurance, or alertness (like most of my proposals had) as barring low-level characters from acquiring them.

I just think that all these salty rules will be merely a waste of space if they are too hard to characters to use. That's why I'm opposed to "useless" feats.

On a stylistic level also, an art is meant to be a sort of "synergy bonus". Not something given by a feat; but an extra given because you have invested in a particular combination of feat. As they are now, they are not carnal arts -- they are carnal feats.


Just in order to be a pedantic jerk, I'll type there the stuff about martial arts:
A martial arts style is a collection of feats [and skills] that practitioners of that style learn to enhance their prowess in combat.
[...]
Following the path of a martial arts style has certain benefits. A character who masters the feats [and skills] within a style gains a mastery ability related to the techniques of that style. Some styles have one mastery ability; others have multiple abilities that a character gains as she masters different aspects of the style. Mastery abilities are a bit like the synergy bonuses a character gains if she has several ranks in certain skills: characters who learn certain combinations of feats [and skills] gains an extra edge for doing so.
[...]
[Sample mastery
EMPTY HAND MASTERY
You have mastered the martial arts style of the "Empty Hand" -- a hard form emphasizing strikes with the hand.
Prerequisites: Imp. Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Fists of Iron, Sunder, Eagle Claw Attack, Ki Shout, 4 or more ranks in Bluff.
Benefit: Your unarmed damage increases by one die type, as if you were one size category larger than you are.

With that example given, my initial intentions when I had that idea was to make some "New Use for Old Skills and Feats", assign some capacities to feats, like giving, say, Accomodation (from halfling harlot) to Toughness, or other ideas like that; include a bunch of skills and feats and SP "perform-like proficiencies" bunched together in a style, with a mastery that would grant improved benefits.

 

[VVrayven]

Alright. Boon One of the Evening

I developed a Java program to test the Hard Focus system. I've found out a few interesting facts that we need to look at. I know no system is perfect, but we do want some degree of realism. The program simulates 10,000,000 sessions of lovemaking.

The program stops with the male have reached climax... No I know, our rules allow for more than that, but in most cases, especially with 1st level commoners, sex is over at this point.

Two 1st level commoners with no ranks in prowess go at it:

If they do not resist each other and have +0 total modifiers. They choose the most favorable DC to achieve the next level of arousal. we get the following statistics:

The average encounter lasts about 22 rounds before the male reaches climax (about 4 minutes). A women experiences about 0.09 orgasms in this case, and has a 7% chance to climax from an encounter.

Now, if the male resists every female action with the Fort save, we get the following:

The average encounter lasts about 35 rounds before the male reaches climax (about 6 minutes). A women experiences about 0.16 orgasms in this case, and has a 10% chance to climax from an encounter.

If the female withholds her prowess roll until she has had at least one climax, their is no change, because she has no bonus. But if she uses her prowess on herself and only reflexively pleasures her partner (the way I did this was have her roll replace the male's if it was higher) then we get:

The average encounter lasts about 28 rounds before the male reaches climax (about 4-5 minutes). A women experiences about 0.59 orgasms in this case, and has a 50% chance to climax from an encounter. This is the most favorable I can get within the rules.

Now I think these numbers are okay. Not too shaby, though they don't match the soft focus rules... In any case, we do have one serious problem. Unless a male has a partner with a prowess 7 or higher and NEVER uses reflex (witholds her prowess bonus to help her chances of orgasm), there is a HIGH probability that the man will LOOSE his errection (i.e. arousal status condition to zero status condition) from a failed prowess check by the women. In fact, even at minimal chance (1 in 20) that is this a 97% probability of the event occuring sometime before male climax. We need to fix this. It doesn't make any sense. I my experience, an able male has never LOST his erection in the middle of an encounter, let alone with him fresh and after 2 minutes.

Here are a few more interesting figures. This assumes the female holds her bonus back until she climaxes at least once and the male resists for as long as he can. All saves are at +0, these are the averages from 10,000,000 sessions:

3 Ranks: 28.8 rounds, 2.4 orgasms, 88% climax chance, 2.3 gratification avg for female.
5 Ranks: 28.8 rounds, 4.3 orgasms, 94% climax chance, 5.2 gratification avg for female.
10 Ranks: 28.7 rounds, 11 orgasms, 99% climax chance, 18.2 gratification avg for female.
15 Ranks: 28.7 rounds, 19 orgasms, 99% climax chance, 40 gratification avg for female.

With a good fort save, both partners can easily hold out for better orgasms and with 15 ranks... Well it's quite easy to get a girl up to a gratifiction of 50+...

Maybe we ought to look at this a little bit more...

Well just my brainy side for tonight...