Advanced Ability Scores?

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I apologize if this was asked and answered recently (I think I read something about it). If a creature's ability scores are significantly increased (i.e. above the elite array in the MM), does this affect CR? xp adjustment?

 

[mikebr99]

I apologize if this was asked and answered recently (I think I read something about it). If a creature's ability scores are significantly increased (i.e. above the elite array in the MM), does this affect CR? xp adjustment?

Well, giving the creature the Elite array in the first place, increases the CR by 1, so If you further increase it by a similar amount, that would warrant another +1 CR. YMMV


Mike

 

[Crothian]

I'd play it by ear. Certain abilities scores mean more to certain creatures becasue of their abilities.

 

[mikebr99]

I'd play it by ear. Certain abilities scores mean more to certain creatures becasue of their abilities.

Sure... but when you give a monster the elite array aren't you already putting the best scores where they will do the most good? And wouldn't increasing those same stats again by a like amount not also adjust the CR by the same?

Mike

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

That's kinda weird. So if you give related class levels to a creature (i.e. fighter levels to a bugbear), and use the elite array to do so, then the creature's CR increases by the # of fighter levels plus an additional 1 for the stats? I would have thought the latter would be included in the former...

 

[Crothian]

Sure... but when you give a monster the elite array aren't you already putting the best scores where they will do the most good?

No, I'm not. I don't give the elite array to make the creature more powerful, I do it to make him more interesting.

 

[mikebr99]

That's kinda weird. So if you give related class levels to a creature (i.e. fighter levels to a bugbear), and use the elite array to do so, then the creature's CR increases by the # of fighter levels plus an additional 1 for the stats? I would have thought the latter would be included in the former...

Nope.. is says specifically in MM that you automatically give them the elite array and do not add +1 CR.

P.293.


Mike

 

[mikebr99]

No, I'm not. I don't give the elite array to make the creature more powerful, I do it to make him more interesting.

Thanks great. I agree... Everything the DM does should make the game enjoyable... that's why we're here.

But according to the rules... if you add the elite array to a creature, without also adding any classes, you increase the CR by 1, irrespective of where those numbers actually go. If the DM chooses to put the 15 in CHR and the 8 in CON for the Orc, but doesn't use that part of him (his high CHR) in the encounter, then the experience for the encounter should be lowered, but not the CR.


Mike

 

[Elric]

I want to point out that it makes no sense that the elite array is worth +1 CR, when adding a level of fighter (and getting the elite array) is also worth +1. Class levels are often front-loaded anyways. So, either the first fighter level is worth more than +1 CR, or the elite array is worth less than +1 CR, or both.