Advanced Class Codex by Green Ronin

[Belen]

Afraid that entry is out of date. Diamond, who handle our book trade distro, requires info far in advance of the hobby, so we had them solicit the ACC last year. Since then we've had to cancel the book due to the continuing decline of the d20 market. That cover is now being used for True Sorcery. Some of the material that was going to be in the ACC will be released as smaller PDFs. The holy warrior section will be the first of that material to appear. It's done, our graphic designers just need enough of a breather between print projects to bang it out.

Not the best news I know but such is the state of d20 in 2006.

Excuses. This was the only book of the advanced line that I felt would be worth the purchase.You guys could have released it in a soft cover or through a print on demand service at the very least.

Other than the bleeding edge line, which was supposed to arrive in print last month, is Green Ronin even going to bother to support D&D any more?

 

[Psion]

Some of the material that was going to be in the ACC will be released as smaller PDFs.

Any chance the Eldritch Weaver is amongst them? Not that I need it, but it's certainly an appealing alternative to all the theme wizard classes coming out of the class mill these days, and it'd be nice to have something easily accessible I could point my players at.

 

[Psion]

Excuses.

Heh. If you want to bankroll Green Ronin's print runs, I'm sure they'll be more sensitive to your input on what they consider to be risky ventures.

I'm not happy about the development myself, but I do see where they are coming from,

 

[Garnfellow]

Excuses. This was the only book of the advanced line that I felt would be worth the purchase.You guys could have released it in a soft cover or through a print on demand service at the very least.

This sounds way too much like a guy who has never run his own business before.

Canceling the book is a serious bummer, but not a big surprise either. I can’t blame Green Ronin for being wary about committing too many resources into d20 right now. Consider the following factors: (1) the near collapse of the game distribution channel, (2) ongoing uncertainty concerning 4e, (3) a general glut of unsold d20 backstock, (4) WotC’s lack of updates to the SRD along with flooding the market with new supplements, and (5) a sluggish US economy.

Based on all that, would you invest YOUR own money in a new d20 supplement right now? If so, I’ve got a couple of business propositions for you.

I would have loved to have seen this book, and I am disappointed that I won’t. But I am more concerned about what this says about the general health of d20 publishing community. Green Ronin has consistently been one of the best producers of d20. If they are pulling back from the market, how long before the few remaining companies start to, also? Will Paizo start feeling the pressure of competition as WotC starts releasing an adventure a month of their own?

 

[elijah snow]

I would still buy this book in a heartbeat if Green Ronin changes its mind... and I'd be willing to pay a little more for it

 

[Sammael]

Whatever the reason, the biggest losers in this case are the gamers.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Heh. If you want to bankroll Green Ronin's print runs, I'm sure they'll be more sensitive to your input on what they consider to be risky ventures.

I'm not happy about the development myself, but I do see where they are coming from,

I wonder if they'd be willing to take preorders and if the preorders hit a certain number, "Bam!" go and do the print bit.

Other than the bleeding edge line, which was supposed to arrive in print last month, is Green Ronin even going to bother to support D&D any more?

For me, it's not that they don't support d20, it's that they don't support D&D. Some of the core books that should've come first in the Advanced Line like the races and class books, came after the medicore GMing and Player's books. Throw in numerous Mythic Vista books (each a setting and each potentially competing with each other), alternative core systems (True 20, Blue Rose, Mutants & Masterminds), etc...

I hope that they have success in it. I Love Mutants & Masterminds (one day I'll even do some review of the material) but D&D is generally where I lay my hat down and True 20, no matter how interesting it is, isn't.

 

[Psion]

For me, it's not that they don't support d20, it's that they don't support D&D. Some of the core books that should've come first in the Advanced Line like the races and class books, came after the medicore GMing and Player's books.

You didn't like AGMM? I thought it was well done, probably the best book of its kind.

The APM, I can see your point...

 

[JoeGKushner]

You didn't like AGMM? I thought it was well done, probably the best book of its kind.

The APM, I can see your point...

Maybe for brand new GM's it was magic but I actually gave my copy to one of my friends.

I'd read your review to see what points I agree with/disagree with, but found it very 'm'eh.'.

I'm... I don't know... old guard? Give me the gaming crunch and stay away from my game after that. It's one of the things I love about Hero, Gurps, etc... in that they provide a pretty comprehensive set of mechcnics and sourcebooks on optiosn to use that as opposed to trying to tell me how I need to be running my game.

In the... what? twenty years I've been gaming, GM advice is either

1. I knew that. I knew it because it's something basic.

2. I disagree with it. It may be true as 1+1 = 2 but it's not something I'll use.

3. Not applicable. Artifact creation is so low on my list of priorities for example, that well, outside of some time killing exercises, I've never put 'em into my game. If the stuff from Fast Forward Entertainment was too powerful, artifacts would certainly fall into that range as well.

the Advanced Bestiary I thought was okay, but I thought they were beaten to the punch by the good old Dexlue Templates book by Silverthrone. Also the use of certain words to describe whole classes of creatures like "dread..." Ugh.

Not saying everything GR does is bad. Loved Black Company and loved Thieves World but unless you take the time to reconcile the differences in the game system (because there are a few basics that don't add up right away) and decide which versions of which classes you're using, and decide that Thieves World matches up with the Glittering Stone, etc..., you're only using ONE of those settings.

Give me the mechanics and I'll decide the rest.

 

[Psion]

I'm... I don't know... old guard? Give me the gaming crunch and stay away from my game after that. It's one of the things I love about Hero, Gurps, etc... in that they provide a pretty comprehensive set of mechcnics and sourcebooks on optiosn to use that as opposed to trying to tell me how I need to be running my game.

In the... what? twenty years I've been gaming, GM advice is either

1. I knew that. I knew it because it's something basic.

2. I disagree with it. It may be true as 1+1 = 2 but it's not something I'll use.

3. Not applicable. Artifact creation is so low on my list of priorities for example, that well, outside of some time killing exercises, I've never put 'em into my game. If the stuff from Fast Forward Entertainment was too powerful, artifacts would certainly fall into that range as well.

See, that's the thing, though. Even if you don't feel you need a DM advice book, I don't think that makes in "mediocre."

That said, it's not just a DM advice book, and I really don't think it's so much for beginning DMs (though sections address that as well, but I'd lean more towards DMGII for that purpose...) It's as much a "DM utility book" (I've been running for over a quarter of a century, and I still can use inspiring bits like the 40 fight scenes to keep me fresh) and as much a "campaign tweaking sourcebook" as Unearthed Arcana, but with more stuff that if applicable to the typical game.

the Advanced Bestiary I thought was okay, but I thought they were beaten to the punch by the good old Dexlue Templates book by Silverthrone. Also the use of certain words to describe whole classes of creatures like "dread..." Ugh.

Yeah, well, I think you know we agree to disagree on that point as well. Some things that were "dread" templates weren't templates in the MM and now I have lots of nifty tools to make things like Ghoul Kings and the like. And even the things that were templates add something to the creature to catch the players off guard.

I think book of templates and AB fill two different, complimentary niches.

The book of templates was more "Here's the templates you know you have been wanting, but either they didn't exist yet or they are squirreled away if a dozen different books."

The Advanced bestiary was more "Here's some ideas you hadn't thought of before." Nothing in Book of Templates like Creature Swarm or Four Horsemen.

Not saying everything GR does is bad.

Good lord, why would anyone say that?