Advancing the plot without resorting to the ubiquitous "letter" from the evil mastermind

[Eltab]

Is that a problem?

Surely that's a problem solver?

Personally I think the reason this thread exists is because most D&D groups don't operate that way. It's a major issue. I'd say easily 95% of the pre-written D&D adventures I've seen which have any element of "finding stuff out" rely, essentially, on telling the PCs. @TheSword outlines the vast majority of them. In almost no cases is any actual effort required from the PCs beyond them bothering to read a letter shoved in their face, or actually question a prisoner.

This has real impacts on how people play, too, and it's not how other non-fantasy RPGs operate, typically. I know this from personal experience. The first time I played Shadowrun properly, the DM (who wasn't my usual DM) did the basic setup for the adventure, and we got to a certain point and we were like "Now what?!" and he was like "Now you have to do some legwork" and we were like "What the hell does that mean?" and he's like "You know, go and talk to people, find stuff out, research things, hack things, follow people, all that stuff", and were like "Bwuuhh?!". We'd played tons of AD&D 2E and a bit of other fantasy RPGs, but it was genuinely difficult for us to understand, initially, that instead of simply obtaining the information and moving on to the next bit of the adventure, we'd have to actually make a pro-active effort to find out what was going on, and an effort beyond questioning people at a bar we'd been lead to or whatever.

If you have PCs who do that, and have a realistic approach to how much secrecy an organisation can have (i.e. not that much unless it's like, less than ten people total, involved even tangentially), then they should be able to advance the plot simply by talking to people and finding leads, rather than finding guidance as solid as letters/journals/prisoners/etc. in the course of normal adventuring.



I've not done a monologue recently myself, but rather than simply going full-fiat and ruling I can monologue as much as I want, damn the consequences, I was thinking that if I wanted to monologue, then a better way to do it would be to reward the players for having their PCs stay "in-genre" and listen - i.e. they might all get a bonus Inspiration point or the like if they do, just as I might award Inspiration for a particularly good speech from a player. You could also use XP or other extrinsic rewards if suitable for your game.

That also prevents it being a one-sided equation. Players don't typically have the information and thus opportunity to prepare "heroic monologues", so it's not really right to be surprised that they don't, or act like they could do it if they wanted to.

The PC monologue could be how they took down so much of the Organization and BBEG is not as grand as his/her hype - and here we are to prove it!

(My group just started Avernus and I might do that if/when we find the head Dead Three priest of Myrkul; my Way of the Long Death monk can call him a faker and a wannabee.)

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Gotta say, the last time I used a letter from the BBEG, it was a plant.

Gosh, I misunderstood the meaning of this phrase the first time I read that. I initially thought that the BBEG was literally just a plant, like an Awakened Shrub or Tree pulling strings and causing chaos. I've got to say, I like the sound of that kind of campaign.

 

[MarkB]

Speak With Dead is a valid alternative to taking prisoners. Stab first, then ask questions afterwards.

 

[Nytmare]

It seems one of the classic tropes of FRPG campaigns is that evil masterminds write detailed letters to their subordinates, who then leave these letters lying around so the PCs can discover them as they loot said subordinates lair (after helping the subordinate shuffle off their mortal coil).

It's been a while since I did a mystery game, and I don't remember where I stole all the bits and pieces of my personal philosophy. I know that some of them came from Gumshoe, but I stole the bulk of them from Jason Alexander.

1. Always have at LEAST 3 clues that lead to any new piece of information and if you're not playing in a "fail forward" system, the fewer rolls players have to screw up actually getting their hands on the clue, the better. Also be willing to hand hold them into making the final deductive leap instead of leaving it up to a die roll.
2. If they find all the clues and they still can't put the pieces together just give them the damn solution and keep things moving forward. Don't make them roll for it.
3. Always be willing to take the really clever solution or conspiracy theory that the players come up with and run with that instead.
4. Red herrings and dead ends suck. Your players will come up with MORE than enough of them on their own, they don't need your help.
5. Pay attention to whatever your system has for knowledge and research skills and make sure you think of ways to frame clues from their character's vantage point.
6. Try to limit it to no more than like one or two flat out boring letters. Make it shipping labels, or accents, or record logs, or cargo manifests, or minted coins, or letters of credit, or anything that points them in the right direction. This is another good point to look at your players' characters' interests. Fancy casks of wine from a special winery. Livestock marked from a certain town's market. A recent playbill from a travelling theatrical troupe.
7. Leave people to give information. Leave non-combatants. If the players aren't leaving survivors, leave them captured prisoners to free. Leave them helpful ghosts, disgruntled farmers, nosey neighbors, enemies of your enemies.



[EDIT] Found it! Three Clue Rule

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The PC monologue could be how they took down so much of the Organization and BBEG is not as grand as his/her hype - and here we are to prove it!

(My group just started Avernus and I might do that if/when we find the head Dead Three priest of Myrkul; my Way of the Long Death monk can call him a faker and a wannabee.)

Sure, but it's very asymmetrical. The DM knows, pretty much, when his monologue is going to happen, what the general situation is likely to be, and so on. He can prep. He can even write a speech and may well have to improvise little or nothing of it, and have good/memorable lines and so on.

Further, he's generally alone. You could in theory have a sort of "rap group" of villains doing a monologue where they tag in and tag out and yes it would be amazing, but I've never seen or heard of it being done. Whereas the PCs are a group - and one person monologuing for them can be cool but it's not really the same thing.

What you're describing isn't a usually a monologue, either, but the fairly common "PC putdown", where one or more PCs insults the villain when they meet them - something which is usually brief (often a one-liner) and improvised. If you can work it, great! But I think it's rare that most players will even be in a situation where they have a monologue prepped.

 

[Wasteland Knight]

Gosh, I misunderstood the meaning of this phrase the first time I read that. I initially thought that the BBEG was literally just a plant, like an Awakened Shrub or Tree pulling strings and causing chaos. I've got to say, I like the sound of that kind of campaign.

Ha! That's hilarious. Imagine if the true mastermind wasn't actually the evil warlord/wizard but the potted plant on the desk? Extremely evil and powerful potted plant, but potted plant nonetheless

 

[Wasteland Knight]

It's been a while since I did a mystery game, and I don't remember where I stole all the bits and pieces of my personal philosophy. I know that some of them came from Gumshoe, but I stole the bulk of them from Jason Alexander.

1. Always have at LEAST 3 clues that lead to any new piece of information and if you're not playing in a "fail forward" system, the fewer rolls players have to screw up actually getting their hands on the clue, the better. Also be willing to hand hold them into making the final deductive leap instead of leaving it up to a die roll.
2. If they find all the clues and they still can't put the pieces together just give them the damn solution and keep things moving forward. Don't make them roll for it.
3. Always be willing to take the really clever solution or conspiracy theory that the players come up with and run with that instead.
4. Red herrings and dead ends suck. Your players will come up with MORE than enough of them on their own, they don't need your help.
5. Pay attention to whatever your system has for knowledge and research skills and make sure you think of ways to frame clues from their character's vantage point.
6. Try to limit it to no more than like one or two flat out boring letters. Make it shipping labels, or accents, or record logs, or cargo manifests, or minted coins, or letters of credit, or anything that points them in the right direction. This is another good point to look at your players' characters' interests. Fancy casks of wine from a special winery. Livestock marked from a certain town's market. A recent playbill from a travelling theatrical troupe.
7. Leave people to give information. Leave non-combatants. If the players aren't leaving survivors, leave them captured prisoners to free. Leave them helpful ghosts, disgruntled farmers, nosey neighbors, enemies of your enemies.



[EDIT] Found it! Three Clue Rule

Thanks, these are useful guidelines. They are a nice expansion to my already internalized guidelines of "don't leave the whole plot up to one event/clue/interaction and don't be too clever".

From personal experience in past campaigns I've seen my seemingly very clever Red Herrings turn into session wasters.

 

[Wasteland Knight]

I appreciate all the responses, and this thread has been useful to help me figure out some alternate "clues" to move along the main plot. Also, I'm going back to each point where there needs to be a major "reveal", and making sure there are multiple clues/leads/etc. to bring this event to fruition.

For anyone interested, this is a PF1E campaign that's based on kit-bashed elements of Shackled City, Curse of the Crimson Throne and Council of Thieves. The main plot follows Shackled City, but I'm using some additional materials from other Paizo APs to flesh out the villains and move the conspiracy to multiple cities.

 

[Eltab]

Ha! That's hilarious. Imagine if the true mastermind wasn't actually the evil warlord/wizard but the potted plant on the desk? Extremely evil and powerful potted plant, but potted plant nonetheless

Isn't there a Wild Magic Sorcerer chaos result that turns you into a potted plant? BBEG was hit by that and it stuck. (Lucky for him he somehow also got Telepathy out of it.)