Adventure Critique please

[Thoras]

Hi all,

I'm relatively new to playing tabletop D & D let alone DMing, but from my experience so far as a player, it's something I wanted to tinker around with.

That being said, I wanted to toss up my first adventure idea for critique. I've left out most of the RP portions, motivating factors, idea's for dialogue etc and just posted up mainly the mechanical side of things as that's where most of my questions are right now. I know it's heavy on the treasure, but I went more with the idea I had behind the bandit hideout then the exact treasure guidelines in the DMG.

I got some excellent help in stating out my custom creatures from forum members already, but wanted to get opinions on the whole thing. My main questions are

1. Are the traps/elemental effects etc reasonable?

2. I'm looking for a way to add 'aid another' into my chase skill challenge, but can't think of a decent framework with what I have in mind. What has me hesitant is that if they use aid another on their turn, they still have to make their own three success before three failures. I really want to work in the hectic nature of a chase you would see in movies etc, where even though your all on the team you can't necessarily wait for your party members and they may get to the 'end' several rounds ahead of anyone else. Just ditch it? Success for the person being aided gives a success for them and the aider?

3. Is the price of failure too low for the skill challenges, only a single lost surge in the worst case or just a delay in the best case?

4. Thematically, this really needs to be done without an extended rest. Is this feasible for a party of six level one characters? The majority of the likely players are not super min/maxers.

5. Any advice, suggestions or constructive criticism.

Thanks!

 

[Arlough]

I am planning on covering each encounter in a different post.

Okay, I really like the setup, but I want to suggest a few things that should make your life easier while still keeping the tension going strong.

Encounter 1:
Start with the fallen trees.
This is more of a Terrain Power (DMG2, pgs. 62-63) than a Trap. A trap should have a DC to see it in advance, a countermeasure to avoid taking damage from it, and one to turn it off or disable it. That doesn’t really fit your narrative here, so I would suggest them being a Single use terrain power, each.
The attack success is highly reliant on the ability of the ambushers, so I am going to have it based on the ambushers’ level, similar to other terrain powers. Additionally, I want this to be an obstacle for low level characters, but not their doom, so I am going to lower the damage quite a bit, but add a feature that will make it still a threat to them. And, since they will still be in the tree branches, even if they avoid having the trunk fall on them, I’ll have a Miss expression to indicate that they still got scrapes and bruises. And finally, this is something that was thought out and prepared, so there is no check necessary to topple the tree, just a standard action.
So with that in mind, here is my Falling Timber power

Timber Fall....................Single-Use Terrain
With some preparation followed by a good shove, this tree will topple onto your foes, pinning them down.
Standard Action
Requirement: You must be within melee reach of the tree.
Target: Each creature in an area 1x4 originating at the base of the tree.
Attack: Level + 3 vs. Reflex.
Hit: 1d6 + ½ level damage, and the target is knocked prone and immobilized (save ends both).
Miss: Half damage
Effect: Area becomes difficult terrain and acts as lightly obscured and challenging terrain. [DMG pgs. 61-62] (Requires either a successful Athletics or Acrobatics check, moderate DC upon entering a square of the terrain. Failure ends movement and deals 2 damage.)
​

This way, you can drop the trees that would prevent the carts from moving further, but you can also hold terrain in reserve to be used more effectively later.

Also, I would start with a tree already lying across the road.
A high DC perception check (or passive perception) from 8 or fewer squares away, or a moderate DC perception (or passive perception) from 4 or fewer squares away will inform the player that it was cut down rather than fell. Then start the initiative and have the brigands spring other Timber Falls or leap from the woods to hinder the players. The brigands would get a surprise round, which should be used primarily for tactical positioning. Keep two of the Archers in the woods (successfully stealthing, preferably) in reserve, to trigger the other trees and to help bolster the ones engaging the players.

Next, for the thief. Instead of having randomness decide when he gets into the box, just pick a number of rounds that seems exciting and cinematic. I would choose either 2-3 (if you want him to get a way and the players to persue him), 5 (if you want the players to have a chance to stop him, but not that great of a chance), or 9 (if you really want the players to get over there and stop him, but you don’t want to reward dilly-dallying.)
If you want your players to feel the tension strongly, go a head and roll the die every round, dramatically announcing that he has failed again, until that last round where you can announce he finally succeeds in defeating the lock. Just make sure the players don’t see the die you are rolling.

Now, since the other encounters are reliant on:

• At least one bandit gets away.
• The PCs care.

I would suggest that the players were hired to guard the item in the chest, and that you make it so the thief can get away no matter what. Perhaps have an additional minon in the way so as to delay an adventurer approaching. And also keep track of player movement and have the “successful” thievery check conveniently happen the turn prior to the adventurer being able to engage the thief. Then use double moves and running to outpace an adventurer’s charge.

I'll cover the next encounter soon, but I have to get going at the moment, so a quick question regarding the second encounter will close out this post.

What is the justification to the players for the loss of a healing surge upon failure?

I'll continue on later.

 

[Thoras]

Thank you for taking the time to look it over Arlough, especially so in depth. I haven't picked up DMG2 yet(guess I'll have to now, heh), but I agree that looks like a much better solution and more in tune with what I wanted for the falling tree's. I like how turning it into challenging terrain helps adds a sense of drama to getting over the obstacle whether they succeed or fail and it's not just "Oh, I need an extra move to cross over".

I'm also going to go ahead with keeping two of the archers in the woods on opposite sides. Not only for the reasons you suggest, but I realized that will provide for more realism as well, since in my original set up, who pushed those trees down?

I'll take that idea in mind for the thief, especially tying it towards how close the PCs get to make it more dramatic and help lead into the other encounters. I'll try and keep that one somewhat fluid and base it on how I feel the rest of the encounter is going.

I'm not sure about telling them up front about the statue. The idea in my mind has it hidden in a secret compartment in the wagon, as the transport is supposed to be very secret.(He is transporting a golden, gem encrusted statue of Amaunator between Waterdeep and Secomber for the church. An acolyte in Waterdeep let a little too much slip to Agari's 'spies' in the local inn though).

I'll think of how I can help ensure they care though. My main thoughts at the moment involve Staern begging them, threatening the wrath of the church, the beneficence of the church, shouting GOLD etc.

For your main question What is the justification to the players for the loss of a healing surge upon failure?

The woods they will be traveling through are a dense, thickly entangled old forest, so in essence, the rigors of travel. If they partake in the chase skill challenge, it would involve struggling through patches of thorns, stumbling in low streams, banging and bashing from tree to tree while still keeping close enough to the bandits to properly be able to "chase" them.

I started writing up some samples of responses I'd have based on which skills they use, but I realized that was too 'railroady' since I wasn't taking into consideration how they would want to use the skill, just assuming something like "i use endurance".

If they take the tracking skill challenge it would be similar, but instead of rushing through all of these obstacles while keeping up, it would be a matter of an accumulation of obstacles over a longer period of time. "After struggling through the forest, you emerge along a beaten dirt and grass path that is thankfully free of the thorns, loose stones and stinging insects you have struggled through for the last several hours."

 

[Arlough]

Encounter 2: The hunt...
Okay, to begin with, your hook is too obvious, seasoned players will immediately assume it is a trap. If they are going to follow/track the bandits anyway, I would just drop the last sentence.
Second, you really do need to get DMG 2. It is one of the better written books, and delves deeper into things like Skill Challenges, how to design traps, and covers what to do in the Paragon tier a lot more.

It also has a skill challenge in it called "Chasing the Bandits" (pg. 91) that is exactly what you need here.

What it covers is what is called a branching challenge. That is, a skill challenge that can, by design, be resolved in at least two ways.

In this case, the goals are either

• Speed - Run them down, remain on their heels, and don't let them catch their breath.
• Stealth - Follow quietly, track them in the shadows, get the drop on them.

The list of activities is about what you would expect, but I would make a change or two based on your particular setup here.
So here is my list of suggestions. Put to them the skills that you would think are most appropriate:

• Running Fast - counts towards goal A
• Don't Stop Running - counts towards goal A
• Spot the Best Path - counts towards either, player's choice
• Walk Softly - counts towards B
• Cunning Woodsmanship - counts towards B

Basically, they have to get a success in one of the two goals before they fail at both. So if this is set at a complexity of two, they would need 6 successes in one before 3 failures total. They could have up to 10 successes and still fail if they didn't get six of those in one of the goals. This works out nice because it lets you build one challenge and adjust it on the spot if one of the goals no longer makes sense.

results:

• Success - Speed You got there just as the thief did, and he knows it. He hustles into the cave. Leaving the Guards and Archers to defend it.
  None of the traps south of the cave entrance (for now, down will be south for ease of reference.) have been set, but battle begins right then.
• Success - Stealth You arrive closer to evening. The sky is still light, but that will fade soon. More importantly, you arrived without anyone the wiser. The traps are all set, and the guards are there, but the adventurers arrive hidden from sight in the entry area, and have time to scout things out. This also gives them the opportunity to attack with a surprise round, should they go to the effort of positioning themselves.
• Failure You get there after dark, and bandits are ready for you, much more than you are for them. This is not going your way. The bandits are ready for them, have reinforcements, and get a surprise round because they had time to set up an ambush. Some are even hidden in the trees. Players have an additional -2 to perception.

As for failures equaling surges, I would give them another option. They can nullify a failure by losing a surge. This would be leaping off ledges you didn't see till it was too late, fighting small vicious animals that block your path, diving into briar patches without plotting a course first, throwing yourself off a ledge to avoid being seen. Basically, desperate actions that are taken with knowledge that while it will hurt, it will still save the mission.
Additionally, while having them arrive in stages, depending on who failed what sounds reasonable, it is a fantastic way to achieve a TPK right from the get go. One of my players still won't let it go and it has been over a year. This is a group achievement D&D, rather than a individual achievement edition. So have the group all arrive together. It's more fun that way, anyway.

I do hope this is all coming out coherent. The NyQuil is kicking in and I am not finding it easy to stay away through a whole sentence.
I'll dive into encounter 3 tomorrow. Need sleep. Hope this is helping. G'night.

 

[monboesen]

I'm glad to see you have taken the advice in the other thread in such a positive way and I think you are doing very well in planning out the adventure.

I'll leave it to Arlough to comment more ind depth as he is doing a sweet job of doing that.


So I'll just touch upon the Bandit leader Agari.As an Elite creature he uses the ecounter budget of 2 creatures and therefore must present the threat of 2 creatures. That is why he gets double the HP.

But your current version of Agari doesn't do enough damage to be as threatening/damaging as 2 enemies. Basically he needs to do one of the following two.

• be able to attack more often (have a minor at-will attack, have an extra standard action at his initiative -10, grant extra attacks to his allies etc.)
  
  
• do more damage (double the damage on his attacks, do ongoing damage, have a damaging aura etc.)

 

[Thoras]

I definatelly liked the changes you worked out for him monboesen(thanks again!), that extra minor action attack just worries me a bit is all. Looking at his average damage and the rough HP for first level characters, I can't see how he won't just kill them all. I suppose to hedge my bets though, I could give him that extra ability and then just use it at my discretion.

I will see about trying to find a cheap version of DMG2 for sure. The idea about negating a failure with a healing surge is an interesting and giving them some more options sounds nice. I'll read those over and see how I can work with the suggestions and my idea behind the "scene".

It's certainly coherent and definitely helpful, thanks!

 

[Arlough]

I'm glad to see you have taken the advice in the other thread in such a positive way and I think you are doing very well in planning out the adventure.

I'll leave it to Arlough to comment more ind depth as he is doing a sweet job of doing that.


So I'll just touch upon the Bandit leader Agari.As an Elite creature he uses the ecounter budget of 2 creatures and therefore must present the threat of 2 creatures. That is why he gets double the HP.

But your current version of Agari doesn't do enough damage to be as threatening/damaging as 2 enemies. Basically he needs to do one of the following two.

• be able to attack more often (have a minor at-will attack, have an extra standard action at his initiative -10, grant extra attacks to his allies etc.)
  
  
• do more damage (double the damage on his attacks, do ongoing damage, have a damaging aura etc.)

While I generally agree with all these principals, but I have also come to the realization that in the first demi-tier, characters are not real adventurers yet. Just as there is a threshold in player and creature power from 10-11, there is also one from 5-6. So, actually, for a 1st level party, he may be too powerful. What, would you say, it the level of character optimization experience and tactical ability of the group you are playing with, on a scale from one {beginner} to five {masterful}? I'll run the final encounter a number of times with my flatmate and a couple friends and see what the resource consumption (HP, dailies, surges, etc.) looks like.

But we arent there yet, so I'll go get a cup of coffee and some lunch, and cover Encounter 3 when I return.

 

[monboesen]

I definatelly liked the changes you worked out for him monboesen(thanks again!), that extra minor action attack just worries me a bit is all. Looking at his average damage and the rough HP for first level characters, I can't see how he won't just kill them all. I suppose to hedge my bets though, I could give him that extra ability and then just use it at my discretion.

I understand your worries; a TPK on the first adventure would be bad indeed.

Never be afraid to adjust on the fly. So run him without the "extra" attack. If it turns out the players are wiping the floor with him let him do something extra and cool.

The most important thing to remember is that all combats should be dramatic*. Otherwise they are just a waste of precious gaming time.


*On occasion it can be nice to throw the players a feel good combat that you know they will win easily, so they can revel in their heroic prowess.

 

[Thoras]

What, would you say, it the level of character optimization experience and tactical ability of the group you are playing with, on a scale from one {beginner} to five {masterful}?

I'd say there would be one person at a 5 for optimization, the other five spread between 1 - 3. As for tactical ability, probably a 3 or so for the team. Strategy gets talked out during the fights, but none one really knows the other characters abilities particularly well.

 

[the-golem]

Thoras, I like your adventure design. When it's done being critiqued, do you plan on posting a revised module for perusal?

Also, what program do you use for the map grids/layouts? I'm greatly interested.