[Adventure OOC]: Shards of Eldanarth (DM: MadAzolin)

[jbear]

Wait ... how many things can this creature do on its turn?

It was below the surface. No mention of burrowing is given in the turn taken. It must have moved to have even been able to attack if we were not able to target it last turn.

Free Action: Regenerate minions ... (Why are we attacking minions when the creature is able to be attacked peeps?) Impossible to stop because it is immune to stun and you can take free actions when dazed ...

Standard Attack: Bite (According to Raw I can have Dimensional Vortex bite a creature within range. The horror is a creature and also with range. I will have it bite itself. I would like to see the dice roll and damage roll for this attack. Nothing that has happened so far inspires me to trust you.)

Then Double vine attack vs 2 targets that are not Kane even though Kane and Jade are nearest targets *cough fireshield cough metagame cough*; minor action?

And it can move the mist as well? As a free action? All of a sudden? Mist hasn't been moving before hand? Moving the mist that automatically causes ongoing 10 dmg as a free action is absurd.

Sorry but this is BS. I really don't know if I can be bothered even continuing with this adventure. There is no way in hell this would have passed the scrutiny of the judges if they were still operating as they should. Sorry Neurotic, I know he's your mate, but I call it as I see it.

Also, team: Why are we not dropping our heaviest most damaging powers on this creature and then action pointing to hurt it again as much and as quickly as possible?

 

[Neil1889]

Well for one thing, Lilli doesn't really have any big damaging powers. She's a controller. She's quite good at messing things up for the masses.

This thing is about as unsuitable a creature for her to fight as there could possibly be.

So, here's me hoping all of the pillars on the go might send it home (or at least help).

I'd have liked the tentacle grabbing Lilli getting rid of before she get's chewed, but the phased one's were attacked instead.

 

[Neurotic]

Sorry but this is BS. I really don't know if I can be bothered even continuing with this adventure. There is no way in hell this would have passed the scrutiny of the judges if they were still operating as they should. Sorry Neurotic, I know he's your mate, but I call it as I see it.
Also, team: Why are we not dropping our heaviest most damaging powers on this creature and then action pointing to hurt it again as much and as quickly as possible?

I cannot speak for MadAzolin, but I think vines are minions and as such are independent in actions (so, minions attack and move etc...regardless of what the beast does). You call him as you will just don't complain if he calls back

Unfortunately, judges are out, I know MadAzoling DMing several systems and in all, fights are tough, but mostly fair - occasional epic monster with the intent of players retreating or doing a ritual not withstanding. There is lack of both judges and DMs and I would prefer custom to no adventure - IronSky did similar things and he passed the judges without (much) trouble

I argued before this fight that we're bunch of controllers and that "test combat" vs three high hit points owlbears showed we are good controllery bunch, but we don't have much in terms of heavy damage - that solo monster is our bane, but then again, we can control it with lower damage or more "standard" party could put a defender on it and bash it in fewer rounds, but the effect would be the same, dead monster.

But I second jbears: Why aren't we dropping big guns on him? Just on damage wise, but control-wise
I argue we are: Cyr dazed it - I will not spend my dazing attack on already dazed monster...if we can keep it from attacking us, we will prevail. I also dropped my daily for it to chew itself. If we could immobilize it we could cast all over it, overlapping zones, ongoing flame sphere etc...it will take some planning, but should be done soon - we have two holy fire characters which can damage it badly, Martelai unfortunately does mostly necrotic and psychic - pretty bad considering monsters resistances, but I have radiant at-will after I shoot out my controlling powers.

Have faith, jbear, [MENTION=6747396]MadAzolin[/MENTION] is not inexperienced, just likes things created by himself instead of the system - not perfect, but not overpowering
[MENTION=100292]Neil1889[/MENTION], I will try to get the tentacle into one area spell to avoid it's concealment, I will put a combat post later today...

 

[MadAzolin]

[MENTION=75065]jbear[/MENTION]:
I don't have a slightest intention of arguing with you, so will just put few notes here:
- monster(s) used are all well within official monster creation rules for 4e, if anything this one you are fighting is bit underpowered for its level:
- minons are just that, they act independently due to being independent monsters (at least as far as game rules are concerned); strictly speaking they are part of monster, but 4e simply treats this by putting extra monsters on the grid due to lack of other ways of treating it
- mist is environmental effect; nothing to do with monster either, so monster 'moving' it is no more then flavor description. Is 10 damage on being hit by it absurd? Well... it moves 1 per round and is 100% avoidable, so if you get hit by it it is solely your own fault, nothing here that is significantly different from other typical damage-dealing terrain
- solo monster that does one moderately damaging attack per round, normal move and far from dangerous minor attack is hardly 'lot of actions'
- feel free to blame monster not hitting itself on me, yet do note you did not give anything aside from moving it in description of using your interrupt; corrected it and applied damage.
- with all due respect, 'not trusting' DM is kinda... absurd for many reasons, I am sure you can figure out why by yourself.
- if you disagree with me, adventure or anything else or do not find it enjoyable, feel free to discontinue playing the adventure; Unless there are different rules in place for such situations, I guess it is fair to assume full participation of char in the adventure up to this point and allow for graceful exit from the adventure. Adventure will be adjusted as/if needed for rest of party if they are interested in continuing.

 

[jbear]

@jbear:
I don't have a slightest intention of arguing with you, so will just put few notes here:
- monster(s) used are all well within official monster creation rules for 4e, if anything this one you are fighting is bit underpowered for its level:

So its a solo about 5 levels above us and is also overpowered for its level. Awesome.

- minons are just that, they act independently due to being independent monsters (at least as far as game rules are concerned); strictly speaking they are part of monster, but 4e simply treats this by putting extra monsters on the grid due to lack of other ways of treating it

I only commented on the unlimited, unstoppable regeneration of the minions as a free action and the fact we were still attacking the minions not the creature itself. I realise the minions act independently. You give no description of what action types are taken in your posts so it is very hard to know what is going on. Maybe at your table this is fine but you will find when playing with a group of anonymous players online who do not see you as their one and only DM it is good practice to be as explicit as possible in your description of mechanics, especially given the creatures are of your own making, if you want to gain any thing similar to trust from them.

- mist is environmental effect; nothing to do with monster either, so monster 'moving' it is no more then flavor description. Is 10 damage on being hit by it absurd? Well... it moves 1 per round and is 100% avoidable, so if you get hit by it it is solely your own fault, nothing here that is significantly different from other typical damage-dealing terrain

So it is an environmental effect ... but the mist has some sort of will then does it? A true environmental effect for a mist like this would move at random. Did you roll the mists movement at random or did you just move it because tactically it was to your advantage? If I had to guess I would say the latter. Also, Kane was not hit by it. There was no attack roll, no chance to not be affected by it. So, yes, given the already overpowered nature of the creature and its horde of unlimited minions that regenerate the creature an auto hitting mist that moves to the tactical advantage of the creature which causes 10 ongoing damage seems absurd.

- solo monster that does one moderately damaging attack per round, normal move and far from dangerous minor attack is hardly 'lot of actions'

Moderately damaging ... it can nearly kill a PC with a single bite. Your definition of moderate and mine are obviously completely different. Also because it is of a significantly higher level it is going to hit 80% of the time. The issue is that you are not defining the actions and who they belong to so until you have said this now it is not something that has been clear.

- feel free to blame monster not hitting itself on me, yet do note you did not give anything aside from moving it in description of using your interrupt; corrected it and applied damage.

I am not blaming that on you. The power used is written so as to allow a loop hole that I don't believe is intended to work that way. I wasn't going to exploit it, but given the current situation I changed my mind and chose exploit any and everything I can just to achieve some type of parity.

- with all due respect, 'not trusting' DM is kinda... absurd for many reasons, I am sure you can figure out why by yourself.

It certainly should be, I do agree. Still, trust is something earnt. Given the anonymous nature of the internet and the fact we are playing with characters who have had careers before this game and that we all hope will continue to do so after this game, I am also sure you can figure out why.

- if you disagree with me, adventure or anything else or do not find it enjoyable, feel free to discontinue playing the adventure; Unless there are different rules in place for such situations, I guess it is fair to assume full participation of char in the adventure up to this point and allow for graceful exit from the adventure. Adventure will be adjusted as/if needed for rest of party if they are interested in continuing.

I have considered simply throwing in the towel. As Neurotic points out, no adventure vs your adventure is something to consider. But I don't want to just pull out on the others mid fight. So I will continue until the end of this fight, even though that means Kane may well die. (We all may)

 

[MetaVoid]

[MENTION=6747396]MadAzolin[/MENTION]:
I too would prefer to see the rolls, not for any distrust of you as a DM or person, but for simple error checking. I realize it's hard to provide the links if you roll your own dice, but be explicit in what bonuses you use so we can check the numbers - most DMs don't mind occasional error correction.

On the mists: Why didn't it move before? Does it have it's own will?
[MENTION=75065]jbear[/MENTION]: this doesn't seem overpowered to me. Regeneration via minions is definitely unusual, but infinite minions are fairly common in adventures. The monster almost kills, that is hard, but consider this: if we had "real" defender - no offense meant for your swordmage, I mean the one that stands toe-to-toe with an enemy (such as fighter or warden) - it would take much more bites to hurt it, it would probably take punishment for at least some of the bites and the such defejder would have powers and effects to prevent some of the damage...

I'd say most of the challenge in this encounter is our lack of seriuos damage or rather of "standard" party composition

 

[dimsdale]

Lerrick was not designed for delivering damage. Everything about her
is for healing purposes. She's a walking medic working at her best when characters are bloodied.
[MENTION=6747396]MadAzolin[/MENTION] lerrick hit the big guy with Iron to Glass. two rounds ago.

Until the end of the encounter, the target takes a -2 penalty to melee damage rolls. Whenever the target hits will a melee attack, the penalty worsens by 1 to a maximum of -5.

I don't know if you have been taking this into account or not. Just checking

 

[Neurotic]

[MENTION=79956]dimsdale[/MENTION], was there an errata on the power? Because I think what you describe is a miss effect (going to check) - if you hit, penalties double
EDIT: checked the power
EDIT EDIT: checked the post, dimsdale critted on that attack

Hit
Until the end of the encounter the target takes -4 penalty to melee damage rolls. Whenever the target hits with melee attack, penalty worsens by 2 to maximum of -10.

My character with power write up is here

 

[dimsdale]

@dimsdale, was there an errata on the power? Because I think what you describe is a miss effect (going to check) - if you hit, penalties double
EDIT: checked the power
EDIT EDIT: checked the post, dimsdale critted on that attack

Hit
Until the end of the encounter the target takes -4 penalty to melee damage rolls. Whenever the target hits with melee attack, penalty worsens by 2 to maximum of -10.

My character with power write up is here

that's even better

 

[MadAzolin]

Iron to Glass is indeed -2 per 'stack' up to -10 unless something changed about it; I might not be up to date with latest changes, so...
Keep in mind it does not affect minions as they are technically separate monsters, but does stack with other sources of damage reduction characters might have.

Also:
- as everyone seems more comfortable about seeing NPC rolls, I will post dice rolls on IC.