[Adventurer's Vault] Problematic Items

[Stalker0]

Let me throw the tempest whetstone on the pile. Every successful hit gives me a burst 2 instant kill of every minion, for the whole encounter.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Nor are untyped bonuses to defenses in those items "broken", but they still break promises we were given about the balance of items in 4e.

And they certainly widen the gap _considerably_ between a group that gives out all of the items from Adventurer's Vault and one that doesn't. Nevermind the group that plays much lower magic and doesn't get much beyond a basic enhancement bonus progression.

I am not sure yet, but it appears to me as if at least those masterwork items that grant a bonus to other defenses just force you make a choice between another bonus to AC or a bonus to one of your defenses. I don't know about other items.

What I find more useful are certain potions and elixiers. For example the one that grants the party resistance 5/10/15 against necrotic and poison damage. Very useful!

But for balance concerns I am looking more at items that seem to change the amount of modifiers/abilities that you can stack. Being resistant to all energy types is quite useful, but will it turn out game-breaking?
Getting an "untyped" bonus to Fort from your armor seems to break the balance - except when it doesn't, and it effectively means you just can't improve another defense by that point. But if you invent multiple items that do this, things might go wrong.

But then, I notice that Masterwork Armor increases AC more then Cloaks increase your other Defenses. So to fully account for the games math, you need something to improve the other defenses, too. (Unless Masterwork armor is broken, too)

Monster attacks increase with +1/level. PCs defenses increase by +3/4 per level (+1 per 2 levels automatically, +1 per 4 levels from magic.), plus potentially another +1 per 5 levels for those defenses you increase per default. This leaves us with a gap of up to 4+ points at higher levels if we don't have such items - are these expected to come from powers, or are they expected to come from magic items?

 

[deleteme123456]

I actually just figure you're supposed to be a little behind the curve at the top. You make up for it with really cool powers, whether those improve defense, or allow more healing, or take enemies out of the fight longer, etc.

Typically I don't see it as 3/4, but
Light: 0.5 (half level) + 0.2 (enhancement) + 4/30 (ability; by level 30 you will have raised it 8 times for +4 not counting Demigod) + 1/15 (masterwork improvement, you gain +2 over the course of the game)= 0.9 per level (optionally an additional +1 from some feat whether hide spec or TWD, or something, counts as +1/30 bringing you to .9333, or if you get two bonuses that stack (demigod + TWD for example), you're at .9666, and at three bonuses (demigod + TWD + hide spec) you're at 1.0 per level.

Heavy: 0.5 (half level) + 6/30 (masterwork) + 6/30 (enhc) = 0.9 per level. Again, you need feats like specialization, or figure that you started higher than the light armor guys b/c you have a shield.

 

[keterys]

I am not sure yet, but it appears to me as if at least those masterwork items that grant a bonus to other defenses just force you make a choice between another bonus to AC or a bonus to one of your defenses. I don't know about other items.

Yeah, I'm okay with the masterworks. I'm objecting to the items that aren't in the core three slots that do things like give fort/ref/will bonuses, add damage to all attacks a character does, etc. Also things like reducing the target's saves by the enhancement bonus of the weapon that stack with other sources.

What I find more useful are certain potions and elixiers. For example the one that grants the party resistance 5/10/15 against necrotic and poison damage. Very useful!

Useful, sure - but creatures deal so low damage that I already think it's too easy to become near immune with resistance from items. I'm just not in favor of making it even easier. Especially with the resists that entire creature types and areas revolve around, like necrotic and fire.

Getting an "untyped" bonus to Fort from your armor seems to break the balance

Trading AC for a little more defense is fine. Especially if they realized there's a slight disparity in attack vs defense. I just don't like it showing up on secondary slots that aren't supposed to be required like feet, head, waist.

 

[deleteme123456]

Trading AC for a little more defense is fine. Especially if they realized there's a slight disparity in attack vs defense. I just don't like it showing up on secondary slots that aren't supposed to be required like feet, head, waist.

I've as much as told my players that bonuses, typed or otherwise, with no conditions attached, that are not AC on armor (or new masterworks), non-AC on neck, or +atk/dmg on weapons, are not allowed. Items with extremely limited conditions under which these bonuses activate are OK, for example, I gave out a Shield of Eyes (gain item bonus equal to shield bonus to AC vs Opportunity attacks) in the last session.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

OK, here is the first major design flaw I noticed.

PHB: +1 dagger - LVL1 - 360 gold
AV: +1 distance dagger - LVL 1 - 360 gold and can be thrown twice as far.

DS

 

[FireLance]

OK, here is the first major design flaw I noticed.

PHB: +1 dagger - LVL1 - 360 gold
AV: +1 distance dagger - LVL 1 - 360 gold and can be thrown twice as far.

Distance weapons deal no additional damage on a crit.

Critting with a +1 dagger: 1d6 + 5 + other damage bonuses.
Critting with a +1 distance dagger: 5 + other damage bonuses.

 

[Prism]

But then, I notice that Masterwork Armor increases AC more then Cloaks increase your other Defenses. So to fully account for the games math, you need something to improve the other defenses, too. (Unless Masterwork armor is broken, too)

Masterwork heavy armour gives an increase in AC to account for the lack of a stat increase over the levels. Masterwork light armour isn't as good because it assumes a character will have an increasing INT or DEX. Not sure if it balances out though. Basically if you choose not to boost DEX or INT then you need to wear heavy MW armour to remain competitive

 

[Byronic]

Distance weapons deal no additional damage on a crit.

Critting with a +1 dagger: 1d6 + 5 + other damage bonuses.
Critting with a +1 distance dagger: 5 + other damage bonuses.

True, but I think the whole point is "why have a normal dagger when you could have a distance dagger for the same price?"

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Masterwork heavy armour gives an increase in AC to account for the lack of a stat increase over the levels. Masterwork light armour isn't as good because it assumes a character will have an increasing INT or DEX. Not sure if it balances out though. Basically if you choose not to boost DEX or INT then you need to wear heavy MW armour to remain competitive

But even Masterwork Light Armor gets a +1 to +2 bonus. And other defenses don't. That was my point.