FreeTheSlaves
Adventurer
I agree. Insist that the DM doesn't give them a verisimilitude destroying break for stupid play - raise a riot in that case. Stupid characters should not survive to the mid-levels.Dannyalcatraz said:
Advice needed before my rogue commits suicide
- Thread starter PrinceZane
- Start date
FreeTheSlaves
Adventurer
I disagree that it will hurt the party, or well that it will hurt the party much. I know for a fact that it hurts the player a whole lot more when their lower level character effectively becomes the sidekick.PrinceZane said:
As a player you don't need to worry about EL and the like - just make a judgement call as your character would and simply negotiate/attack/retreat as you feel you should.
Yes, feel free to use my friend's tactic "I'm running...did I mention I'm running?" for any encounter in which a mixed level party should, realistically, retreat.
It will do wonders.
Darwinism works in D&D as well as Real Life.
It will do wonders.
Darwinism works in D&D as well as Real Life.
DrNilesCrane
First Post
Seeing if the DM will cut you a little flexability with your rogue might help make him a bit more useful, although perhaps there are some new tactics you could try? If he has a good Use Magic Device roll, he could be devastating with a Wand of Cure X Wounds against the undead (as well as keep the party healed). If there were more traps or flesh and blood enemies (cultists or something), that might give your rogue more of a role.
As for the other members of the group, it sounds like you and Wizard are the brains of the outfit (despite his Fireball tactic)...perhaps time to assert more leadership between the two of you on the rest of the party (seems like that is already started)? A private talk with the DM sounds like a good idea as well.
Are the other players enjoying the campaign despite their bad choices? It sounds like you have two players that are more serious/tactical and a couple of "beer and pretzels" gamers. Nothing wrong with either type, but they are definitely two different styles. If changing players is not an option, maybe you (and the DM) can talk about ways of making the challenges appropriate for both styles of play. Involving the other players in that discussion could help too - don't blame them for their style of play, but perhaps find a way to make it work together better?
Sorry, haven't heard of the feat either.
As for the other members of the group, it sounds like you and Wizard are the brains of the outfit (despite his Fireball tactic)...perhaps time to assert more leadership between the two of you on the rest of the party (seems like that is already started)? A private talk with the DM sounds like a good idea as well.
Are the other players enjoying the campaign despite their bad choices? It sounds like you have two players that are more serious/tactical and a couple of "beer and pretzels" gamers. Nothing wrong with either type, but they are definitely two different styles. If changing players is not an option, maybe you (and the DM) can talk about ways of making the challenges appropriate for both styles of play. Involving the other players in that discussion could help too - don't blame them for their style of play, but perhaps find a way to make it work together better?
Sorry, haven't heard of the feat either.
Vraille Darkfang
First Post
You are going into a dungeon full of undead.
You have an evil cleric
You have an army of mindless undead minons you use to set off traps and fight any constructs or living beings you encounter.
This is sort of like basic math. Evil cleric plus boatloads of undead equals your undead army. (Unless the module does the metagaming, assinine, frustrating, poor game design- Oh yea, even though this dungeon is full of mindless undead, they are all immune to Turning/Commanding).
As for suicide options: Don't try the Heavy Croosbow to the Head. Never does enough damage to kill you.
Have fun. Go to the DM & ask to pledge you eternal servatude to whatever is at the heart of the dungeon. That way you can kill you stupid comrades for free & not be so worried about dying all the time.
You have an evil cleric
You have an army of mindless undead minons you use to set off traps and fight any constructs or living beings you encounter.
This is sort of like basic math. Evil cleric plus boatloads of undead equals your undead army. (Unless the module does the metagaming, assinine, frustrating, poor game design- Oh yea, even though this dungeon is full of mindless undead, they are all immune to Turning/Commanding).
As for suicide options: Don't try the Heavy Croosbow to the Head. Never does enough damage to kill you.
Have fun. Go to the DM & ask to pledge you eternal servatude to whatever is at the heart of the dungeon. That way you can kill you stupid comrades for free & not be so worried about dying all the time.
Nareau
Explorer
I used to game with someone like this. She was a great role-player, but hands-down the worst tactician I've ever seen. Her serceror was constantly getting eaten/torn apart/etc.
I talked to her about it out of game. She said she really hated combats. She never bothered to read the combat chapter, and barely knew the effects of her own spells.
At some point, my character (a priestess of a war-god) had to go out of her way to save the sorceror. Afterwards, my character said, in no uncertain terms: "Look--you're no good at this 'staying alive' stuff. I'll help buff/protect/heal you, but you have to follow MY orders whenever we get into a fight." It worked out pretty well, both in-game and out.
I might suggest your rogue take some Knowledge: Dungeoneering and Knowledge: Religion to help inform the actions of the poor tacticians. You might also talk to your DM about allowing the poor-tacticians to make more Spot/Sense Motive/Knowledge rolls to make up for their ineffective combat decisions.
Spider
I talked to her about it out of game. She said she really hated combats. She never bothered to read the combat chapter, and barely knew the effects of her own spells.
At some point, my character (a priestess of a war-god) had to go out of her way to save the sorceror. Afterwards, my character said, in no uncertain terms: "Look--you're no good at this 'staying alive' stuff. I'll help buff/protect/heal you, but you have to follow MY orders whenever we get into a fight." It worked out pretty well, both in-game and out.
I might suggest your rogue take some Knowledge: Dungeoneering and Knowledge: Religion to help inform the actions of the poor tacticians. You might also talk to your DM about allowing the poor-tacticians to make more Spot/Sense Motive/Knowledge rolls to make up for their ineffective combat decisions.
Spider
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PrinceZane
First Post
I'm actually kinda partial to that pledging yourself to the boss idea. After thinking about things, I've come to the conclusion that they just have no logic/common sense at all. At first, I was just blaming it on pure stupidity (which it may definitely be there), but I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and term it "they're to stupid to realize what they're doing". I mean they know that they're screwing up and such, but after the battle and we explain all the errors, it's a nice "Oh... I didn't realize.... I didn't know" Mr. Wizard is smoking the cleric on every heal check we've done which is kind of ironic.
I've figured out that there is no feat for SA vs undead. Just a spell. Unfortunately we're a few days from town and there's some extremely cold weather goin on, so going back for a few wands might not be worth it.
I've figured out that there is no feat for SA vs undead. Just a spell. Unfortunately we're a few days from town and there's some extremely cold weather goin on, so going back for a few wands might not be worth it.
Patman21967
First Post
Maybe tell the guy playing the Cleric to be a good aligned Cleric, and not a dweeb. A Radiant Servant of Pelor would kick ass..
Patman21967
First Post
PrinceZane said:Well, as for the players and such... this is the only group around that I know of. Well, there's one more group I know of, but the person that I know in it is definitely NOT the brightest shade of black in the box. If I were going to leave these guys it would be for better, not the same.
I don't think the "let them die over and over" will work. Because the point of enforcing some rules and battling metagaming was to create an atmosphere of everyone developing minds and strategy. Thinking for themselves and what not. Instead of there being 5-6 people and 2 people actually playing, the others just moving mini's around. If I want to play mono y mono I'll look in a mirror. At least then I can't be caught in a surprise round.
Unfortunately they aren't developing as fast.. or at all... as I thought.
Anyway, I'm still trying to find this feat. I found the spell Grave Strike, to allow SA vs undead. But I've heard on this thread and another talk about a feat, but no one seems to know where I can find it, or the stats/prereq for it or anything. If someone can help me out plz let me know
A am not a big fan of Meta-Gaming either, but if "in -character" you know the capabilities of your other party members, and can see Fireballs are making the Muumies larger, how is it meta for you to yell out, "quit the f'n fire, can't you see they are getting stronger, use something else you stupid priest of a worthless God, or I'll show you why I am aspiring to be an Assassain" or something of the like, then afterwards, have battle strategy discussions...
Patman21967
First Post
Take a level of wizard, so you don't even have to worry about UMD. I am a rogue3/Wiz2 and we are fighting undead. I'm pretty useless, except i have a decent AC, and Shield, so i get in, and use "assist other" with the Fighters. I don't do crap for damage, since I use a Shortsword, and we are fighting buffed Zombies, but if i can give the fighters a + to hit, of to their AC...it works...Our GM is running us through Phlan, updated to 3.5 and we are in the graveyard...
