Advice on 9th level Monk doing 6d6 damage per strike...

[Legildur]

So, extrapolating from this interpretation, a character cannot, for instance, draw a weapon as he's charging, even if he has a +1 or better BAB? Drawing a weapon requires a Move Action, which you say is something that doesn't occur during a charge.

Correct. A Charge is not a regular move. And footnote 4 on table 8-2 explicitly specifies a regular move as the condition for allowing you to draw one (or two) weapon(s) whilst moving.

Looking at the action chart, I notice that a sunder attempt is listed as a Standard Action as well. Of course, that's an attack, which can be part of a charge, but my Spring Attack might be used to sunder something, so that should mesh.

Incorrect. A Spring Attack uses the Attack action (a Standard action) and a move action (your regular movement) with special conditions for combining the two.

The Sunder action is a Standard Action that uses a modified melee attack to resolve the special attack (but is not, in itself, an Attack action). Therefore you cannot use a Sunder on a charge or spring attack (though you could use a disarm, trip or attempt to commence a grapple, by dint of footnote 7 on those actions in table 8-2).

 

[Question]

This thread is getting slightly out of hand......

On the goliath thing, if you comapre it to the LA+0 orc, well it seems more or less equal......but if you compare it to planetouched races, you jsut go WTF. I would attribute that to the planetouched races being underpowered though.

 

[Felon]

This thread is getting slightly out of hand......

Agreed. The responses I'm getting favor literal, semantic-heavy interpretations rather at the expense of any pragmatic value (need I explain why forbidding a charging character from drawing his weapon is asanine?), so if I want to continue this charge/spring-attack discussion furthere, I'll supply a new thread for it to fester in.

 

[KarinsDad]

PHB page 141

8 The description of a feat defines its effect.

OH NO!!!

We have to start this debate all over again.

 

[KarinsDad]

Agreed. The responses I'm getting favor literal, semantic-heavy interpretations rather at the expense of any pragmatic value (need I explain why forbidding a charging character from drawing his weapon is asanine?), so if I want to continue this charge/spring-attack discussion furthere, I'll supply a new thread for it to fester in.

The responses you are getting are RAW. Special Attacks have special rules and these often conflict with the normal rules.

But, several people are disagreeing with you because this is a rules forum and we discuss rules here. The rules you are talking about are pretty clear cut.

Playing a more liberal game than what the rules state is fine. But, that doesn't change the rules.


Attack Actions and Move Actions are clearly defined game terms which are not the same as attacking and movement.

If you are doing an Attack Action, you are (typically) considered to be doing an attack, but there are attacks which are not Attack Actions. For example, an Attack of Opportunity. That is not an action at all. It is still an attack.

If you are doing a Move Action, you are sometimes considered to be doing movement, but many Move Actions are not movement. Conversely, there are movements which are not Move Actions. For example, movement as part of a Full Round Action like Charging or Withdrawing does not include a Move Action as part of the Full Round Action.

If you want a character to draw a weapon while Charging, take the Quickdraw feat. That is one of the purposes of that feat and a PC should not get part of the utility of that feat for free. Note: The draw a weapon issue is debatable. The text says as "part of a regular move" which implies the Move Action and the Quick Draw feat states as "part of movement". Either interpretation is reasonable, but I like giving the umph to the Quick Draw feat.

It's unfortunate that you are taking offense to this, but that is not our intent. Our intent is to discuss rules.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I always thought the goliaths had the special ability to use "oversized" weapons. Nothing gave me the impression that goliaths themselves were somehow considered to be "oversized."

 

[KarinsDad]

I always thought the goliaths had the special ability to use "oversized" weapons. Nothing gave me the impression that goliaths themselves were somehow considered to be "oversized."

Your impression is correct.

 

[Krel]

However, the goliath is treated as one size category larger for some purposes.

Powerful Build: The physical stature of a goliath lets him function in many ways as if he were one size category larger. Whenever a goliath is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the goliath is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A goliath is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature's special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A goliath can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category.

 

[Cedric]

What's amusing to me is that while I'll free go toe to toe with someone regarding the semantics of the rules HERE....in my own games, this is NEVER an issue.

It takes 'maybe' 30 seconds (usually less) to decide how to rule something. Once that's decided everyone moves on, there's not an issue.

In general, I don't consider the RAW quite as much as I consider the balance and impact of a particular interpretation. Now, I understand that would be considered house rules and would go in a different forum...so I won't really go into it further.

I would just implore people to never forget that its a game...and that you 'may' (not saying you will, but you might) have more fun with your games if you played a little bit more loosely with the rules as they are written, and go rather with what works for your group.

 

[KarinsDad]

However, the goliath is treated as one size category larger for some purposes.

Powerful Build: The physical stature of a goliath lets him function in many ways as if he were one size category larger. Whenever a goliath is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the goliath is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A goliath is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature's special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A goliath can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category.

Yes. Some purposes. You listed all of them here.

Unarmed Strikes is not one of those. An unarmed strike is not a weapon designed for a creature one size larger.