Advice on a cleric feat please.

[two]

what is the obsession with better initiative?

It's a cleric with 12 dex! Flatfooted means 1 less AC, big deal. Unless you get sneak attacked a WHOLE lot, it's not a big deal. And anyway, you won't beat the sneak attacking rogue's init anyway.

Totally wasted feat at this level for a cleric, in my opinion.

 

[Larcen]

Having seen a melee cleric in action, I'm quite unsure, that there is any 5th level spell, that can even remotely compare to a 24h Divine Favor!

What "must haves" do you speak of? True Seeing?

If you have 20+ Wis (with item) you still get one other spell and a domain spell at least (in 9th level).

About Spell Penetration: I don't know what spells you plan to use with that one. It can be a great feat for sure, but will it benefit you enough?

Bye
Thanee

Well, bear in mind that we only use core books and that the following list represent spells that I personaly would rather have over a persistent Divine Favor.

Break Enchantment
Commune
Plane Shift
Righteous Might
Slay Living
Spell Resistance
Summon Monster V
True Seeing

I feel having some of the spells on that list can mean the difference between the success or failure of an entire mission.

Sure, a Divine Favor in very high level hands can be great, but not so much for a 9th level cleric. Later on, Bob (or myself) should definately consider it though. Again, IMHO.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that I have noticed a lot of things on the cleric spell list give you plusses to hit and damage, but very few things give you an extra 5th level spell to cast.

 

[Larcen]

It's a cleric with 12 dex! Flatfooted means 1 less AC, big deal. Unless you get sneak attacked a WHOLE lot, it's not a big deal. And anyway, you won't beat the sneak attacking rogue's init anyway.

Totally wasted feat at this level for a cleric, in my opinion.

Ok, good point. But I took the feat myself and have never regretted it. Let's just say going somewhere near the end of the initiative order sucks. By the time it gets to you, your options may be severly limited.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Having seen a melee cleric in action, I'm quite unsure, that there is any 5th level spell, that can even remotely compare to a 24h Divine Favor!

What "must haves" do you speak of? True Seeing?

If you have 20+ Wis (with item) you still get one other spell and a domain spell at least (in 9th level).

About Spell Penetration: I don't know what spells you plan to use with that one. It can be a great feat for sure, but will it benefit you enough?

Bye
Thanee

Totally agree, and despite the slight nerf to GMW and magic vestments extended versions of these are fairly cool. Also if your in it for the long haul a persistent divine might/power kicks some major butt as well. With these feats in the upper levels its very easy to drop 5-6 spells at the begining of the day and be as nasty in a fight as the fighter and still have an astounding number of spells at your disposal.

 

[Larcen]

Totally agree, and despite the slight nerf to GMW and magic vestments extended versions of these are fairly cool. Also if your in it for the long haul a persistent divine might/power kicks some major butt as well. With these feats in the upper levels its very easy to drop 5-6 spells at the begining of the day and be as nasty in a fight as the fighter and still have an astounding number of spells at your disposal.

Hey, keep talking guys, and I may just take Extend Spell and Persistent Spell as my next two feats. By that time, I'll have all the extra slots I need to make use of them and the spells will give me more bonuses.

 

[Joshua Randall]

At least no one said Combat Casting. I hate how every crappy NPC cleric has that feat. :uke::

 

[Nail]

It's a cleric with 12 dex! Flatfooted means 1 less AC, big deal. Unless you get sneak attacked a WHOLE lot, it's not a big deal. And anyway, you won't beat the sneak attacking rogue's init anyway.

Totally wasted feat at this level for a cleric, in my opinion.

Just so you're aware: One of the things that comes out of fight simulations (using 3.5e rules and an Excel spreadsheet) is how important initiative is. Often, the difference in average damage per round between two opponents is small enough that the survivor ends up being the combatant with the highest initiative.

This is also born out in play as well. The order of initiative and who gets to act during the surprise round sets the field of battle. It's all about limiting your opponent's options while keeping your own wide open.

 

[Larcen]

... It's all about limiting your opponent's options while keeping your own wide open.

Hey, that's what I just said! And I didn't have the benefit of the spreadsheets, only experience.

 

[Nail]

Hey, that's what I just said! And I didn't have the benefit of the spreadsheets, only experience.

...and therefore your comments are more relevant, really. Shucks.

The thing that always astounds me in D&D combat is how much that first round matters. Position and initiative are key (unless, of course, the NPCs have "low Int"). If the fighter charges before the cleric can get off the Sound Burst, or if the rogue doesn't win init, or if the wizard (or archer!) starts combat too close to the front lines.......

Not to mention the fact that even after 3.5e, there are still save or die spells that can radically change combat....kinda like Hold Person, actually.

 

[Larcen]

...and therefore your comments are more relevant, really. Shucks.

The thing that always astounds me in D&D combat is how much that first round matters. Position and initiative are key (unless, of course, the NPCs have "low Int"). If the fighter charges before the cleric can get off the Sound Burst, or if the rogue doesn't win init, or if the wizard (or archer!) starts combat too close to the front lines.......

Not to mention the fact that even after 3.5e, there are still save or die spells that can radically change combat....kinda like Hold Person, actually.

Right. I have noticed all that too. And the cyclical initiative of 3E just make it worse I think. The guys who go last more often than not or on the defensive and merely reactign to what came before.

Also, remember that in high level magical combat the winner is usually the person who goes first.