The Lost Muse
First Post
I'd also suggest getting GURPS Powers, if you decide to go with that system. It's very useful in modelling almost anything you could think of.
Advice on using GURPs to replace 4E?
dbm
Savage!
I'm a fan of GURPS from the past, though I haven't played much of 4th edition. As other have commented, GURPS is very gritty out of the box, and combat quickly results in mutilated or dead characters unless you are very skilled and/or well equiped. This makes the '5 PCs against a horde' aspect of DnD hard to reproduce without using a chunk of the optional rules that the system provides.
I would urge some caution with implementing GURPS Magic. We tried a Eberron based GURPS game just before 4e came out, migrating 3rd edition characters over to GURPS. I was by far the most knowedgeable player in the group when it came to GURPS, and I was playing a wizard whilst everyone else was playing more martial oriented characters. We had an adventure which revolved around defending a town; my elemental focussed wizard was able to single handedly fortify the town using the 'Move Earth' spell (in GURPS, low level spells can be cast for free if you are skilled in them, and you can achieve a lot with a low-level Move Earth when you have several hours to prepare). He was also as dangerous as the melee specialists in hand-to-hand, having 'Flame Jet' as his highest skill. Bottom line - my character out-shone the whole party and this really upset the group dynamic. My point - the 'traditional' magic system in GURPS can be unbalanced relative to other parts of the system; if I was to play a fantasy GURPS game again I would probably use the Powers book to build magical effects as this seems more in-line with other aspects of the system.
In terms of tactics, GURPS has an extremely rich set of combat options which can be put together in many ways to build very varied combat. The only thing missing is opportunity attacks, though their omission is less significant since the game runs on 1-second rounds so the ability to abuse action phasing is minimised.
Let us know how it goes!
Cheers,
Dan
I would urge some caution with implementing GURPS Magic. We tried a Eberron based GURPS game just before 4e came out, migrating 3rd edition characters over to GURPS. I was by far the most knowedgeable player in the group when it came to GURPS, and I was playing a wizard whilst everyone else was playing more martial oriented characters. We had an adventure which revolved around defending a town; my elemental focussed wizard was able to single handedly fortify the town using the 'Move Earth' spell (in GURPS, low level spells can be cast for free if you are skilled in them, and you can achieve a lot with a low-level Move Earth when you have several hours to prepare). He was also as dangerous as the melee specialists in hand-to-hand, having 'Flame Jet' as his highest skill. Bottom line - my character out-shone the whole party and this really upset the group dynamic. My point - the 'traditional' magic system in GURPS can be unbalanced relative to other parts of the system; if I was to play a fantasy GURPS game again I would probably use the Powers book to build magical effects as this seems more in-line with other aspects of the system.
In terms of tactics, GURPS has an extremely rich set of combat options which can be put together in many ways to build very varied combat. The only thing missing is opportunity attacks, though their omission is less significant since the game runs on 1-second rounds so the ability to abuse action phasing is minimised.
Let us know how it goes!
Cheers,
Dan
ExploderWizard
Hero
Others have touched on some key differences between GURPS and D&D. Having played a good deal of both, here is my take:
Power/Advancement: GURPS characters can start off as lowly or competently as the GM/players desire. Standard advancement is a slow trickle of earned character points and allows some improvement every session. There are no "levels" or milestones of accomplishment that some players may be used to from D&D. You can model these level-ups in GURPS by awarding points in larger chunks at less frequent intervals.
Combat: GURPS characters can become master martial artists and devastating in a fight. Advanced GURPS combat is one of the best sets of tactical mini based rules on the market. The largest difference is that the capacity to both deal and sustain damage will not increase much with a rise in power or skill. Casters are an exception. Spell damage rises with the access to more energy. This means that big nasty creatures that really pump out the hurt can be as dangerous to high power characters as they are to those of lesser power. Be very careful about outnumbering the PC's. Damage is not ablation based, instead it is mitigated by the use of active defenses. These defenses are limited so surrounding a master swordsman with 4 average swordsman won't get you the results you see in movies.
Highly cinematic options are needed to get that D&D feel.
Points/levels: GURPS is a roleplaying game and point levels are not exclusively based on combat concerns. A 300 point, well connected influential merchant can be cut down in a second by a lean, and mean 100 point fighter. Point costs are balanced by usefulness/hinderance in the overall scheme of the game. Its up to the GM to make sure that things that cost/give points matter.
Rewards: Character points (XP) are given based on how well the player roleplayed the character rather than how much stuff was killed or loot gained. The GM can award points for whatever he/she wants buts the default helps enforce the playing of disadvantages that might not be so helpful to the mission- thats why they are DISadvantages.
Let us know how things work out.
Power/Advancement: GURPS characters can start off as lowly or competently as the GM/players desire. Standard advancement is a slow trickle of earned character points and allows some improvement every session. There are no "levels" or milestones of accomplishment that some players may be used to from D&D. You can model these level-ups in GURPS by awarding points in larger chunks at less frequent intervals.
Combat: GURPS characters can become master martial artists and devastating in a fight. Advanced GURPS combat is one of the best sets of tactical mini based rules on the market. The largest difference is that the capacity to both deal and sustain damage will not increase much with a rise in power or skill. Casters are an exception. Spell damage rises with the access to more energy. This means that big nasty creatures that really pump out the hurt can be as dangerous to high power characters as they are to those of lesser power. Be very careful about outnumbering the PC's. Damage is not ablation based, instead it is mitigated by the use of active defenses. These defenses are limited so surrounding a master swordsman with 4 average swordsman won't get you the results you see in movies.
Highly cinematic options are needed to get that D&D feel.
Points/levels: GURPS is a roleplaying game and point levels are not exclusively based on combat concerns. A 300 point, well connected influential merchant can be cut down in a second by a lean, and mean 100 point fighter. Point costs are balanced by usefulness/hinderance in the overall scheme of the game. Its up to the GM to make sure that things that cost/give points matter.
Rewards: Character points (XP) are given based on how well the player roleplayed the character rather than how much stuff was killed or loot gained. The GM can award points for whatever he/she wants buts the default helps enforce the playing of disadvantages that might not be so helpful to the mission- thats why they are DISadvantages.
Let us know how things work out.
Last edited:
mach1.9pants
Hero
Thanks again, this is all off my own DM bat. So we will discuss it at next session, The players are enjoying 4E so I might just have to suck up the lack of PDFs!
Voadam
Legend
1. GURPS is like D&D with low level hp (a base 10 and insignificant increase from there, 20 would be superhuman) and more in depth combat rules. You can play very tactical combat and combat centric with strong combat skill, but the system is fairly gritty deadly until you get to superhero type point levels. This didn't stop our group from playing 1e or 2e gurps in the exact same style as hack and slash dungeon crawl AD&D or Warhammer back in the 80's. 4e D&D has a lot of hp and healing surges and healing powers that work well to keep PCs alive in heroic combat that GURPS does not unless you design something in for that.
2. You can do fairly well with just the free lite rules. I own a ton of 3e GURPS books that would apply, (Magic, Fantasy Races, Martial Arts, Bestiary, Vampires, various settings, etc.) but the core is very good at providing stuff for a sword and sorcery D&D type game.
qstor
Adventurer
I have both of these in the 3e versions. IIRC in 4e Fantasy has been broken up to remove the Yrth materials into a new book. I would also think about getting the 4e Bestiary.
Mike
I have to say I am not a huge fan of Gurps. We used it for many years for fantasty, vampire, sci fi, army stuff etc etc adn I think the flaw in the system is it is too generic. I don't feel the flavor of guys cause they are all too similar and the combat rules are so extensive that you will never understand them.
The new warhammer fantasy is pretty nice if your looking for a system. I like the character creation a lot and the guys have a good feel to them. Make yoru party roll randomly for everything. It makes it very interesting.
Sadly my last guy started as a peasent, Moved up to Servant and then moved into theif. It was funny cause I was not tough at all but I was one of two orginal party members and had out lived a dozen or so other characters.
The new warhammer fantasy is pretty nice if your looking for a system. I like the character creation a lot and the guys have a good feel to them. Make yoru party roll randomly for everything. It makes it very interesting.
Sadly my last guy started as a peasent, Moved up to Servant and then moved into theif. It was funny cause I was not tough at all but I was one of two orginal party members and had out lived a dozen or so other characters.
Son_of_Thunder
Explorer
I had the same idea
I just finished picking up a bunch of GURPS books to play some fantasy. I decided not to follow D&D 4 and look into other systems. I'm really excited to start reading my books.
I just finished picking up a bunch of GURPS books to play some fantasy. I decided not to follow D&D 4 and look into other systems. I'm really excited to start reading my books.
Echoing some things said by earlier posters:
GURPS Magic is a very specific way of modeling spell-casters. You may love it (like I do), hate it, or have no use for it, as it doesn't model the way YOU want magic to work (like I do). It makes magic VERY different from D&D.
GURPS Powers is a very, very good purchase. Not just for making your own magic system (which it would be excellent for), but also for suggestions on how to do tons of different effects (poisons, auras, transformations). I can see any GM in a magical world getting tons of use out of it.
A previous poster pointed out the "generic" feel of GURPS. This is a real danger, particularly if you allow the players to create their own Powers and martial arts. If someone creates a power, they may just say that it is a 3d Flaming Jet attack, with a continuing damage effect. On the other hand, if someone has Al-Rahim's Flaming Sword of Ruin (which just also happens to be a 3d Flaming Jet attack with a continuing damage effect), the "generic" feel tends to go away. Taking time to characterize Powers, effects, and Martial Techniques "in the world", as well as "in the rules" really helps GURPS feel less formulaic.
Also, with GURPS, a LOT of the work is at the "front-end". Creating Powers and Spells, statting out races, and making up Characters (and enemies) can take a LOT of time. Once you've gotten this done, however, you seem to need to refer less to the rules in play, as a lot of the rules are contained within the power or character sheet (kind of like running D&D with combat cards). Don't be discouraged by the high initial time investment.
GURPS Magic is a very specific way of modeling spell-casters. You may love it (like I do), hate it, or have no use for it, as it doesn't model the way YOU want magic to work (like I do). It makes magic VERY different from D&D.
GURPS Powers is a very, very good purchase. Not just for making your own magic system (which it would be excellent for), but also for suggestions on how to do tons of different effects (poisons, auras, transformations). I can see any GM in a magical world getting tons of use out of it.
A previous poster pointed out the "generic" feel of GURPS. This is a real danger, particularly if you allow the players to create their own Powers and martial arts. If someone creates a power, they may just say that it is a 3d Flaming Jet attack, with a continuing damage effect. On the other hand, if someone has Al-Rahim's Flaming Sword of Ruin (which just also happens to be a 3d Flaming Jet attack with a continuing damage effect), the "generic" feel tends to go away. Taking time to characterize Powers, effects, and Martial Techniques "in the world", as well as "in the rules" really helps GURPS feel less formulaic.
Also, with GURPS, a LOT of the work is at the "front-end". Creating Powers and Spells, statting out races, and making up Characters (and enemies) can take a LOT of time. Once you've gotten this done, however, you seem to need to refer less to the rules in play, as a lot of the rules are contained within the power or character sheet (kind of like running D&D with combat cards). Don't be discouraged by the high initial time investment.
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