Advice req: Heal House Rules

greywulf

First Post
Sure this has been covered before, but........

One thing I love about d20 is the little quirky rules that don't quite fit together.

One thing I hate about d20 is the little quirky rules that don't quite fit together.


This is what's on my mind right now: the logic behind increasing HP per level is that as the character matures and gains battle experience they learn to ride with the hits, shrug off damage that may once have been fatal and generally act in a cinematic herioc fashion. That 8HP sword slice that would have gutted Mr 1st Level Rogue becomes nothing but a slight graze across the chest for Mr 10th Level Rogue because he twists with the blade, letting it slide harmlessly across the ribs. Hence, lower proportional damage.

Nice. I like that. It works for me.

But.

When Mr 1st Level Rogue, coughing blood, barely breathing and almost a goner appeals to the Gods to save their puny life, the resident cleric casts Cure Light Wounds and that gaping hole in the chest miraculously closes and the lifeblood that's pumping out stops. A good roll, all 8HP healed. Light Wounds? Nothing of the sort!

Conversely, Mr hardly-scatched 10th Level Rogue heads to the temple to have their multiple minor injuries patched up. Another Cure Light Wounds spell, another good roll - also 8HP healed, and that small cut across the chest closes, but all the other injuries remain. That makes some kind of sense - a Light Wound was healed this time..... so that works, I guess. Mr 10th Level Rogue is glad the Gods are faintly interested in him.

So, here's where the request for advice comes in. I want to make the Cure spells more accurately reflect their status (Minor, Light, Moderate, Serious, Critical) as a percentage of the recipient's total HP rather than a die roll.

Something like this:

Minor: d10% of total HP healed
Light: d20% of total HP healed
Moderate: 40+d20% of total HP healed
Serious: 60+d20% of total HP healed
Critical: 80+d20% of total HP healed

This would mean that Cure Light Wounds (and therefore low-level clerics) become less of a live saver for low level parties (but Cure Minor Wounds becomes more useful), and high level healing might be needed by even the common man at times.

It'll make combat more feared - which is what I want - and might need some thought with regard to changing CRs - 25% of HP is harder to heal using these changes, after all.

Thoughts?
 
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Stalker0

Legend
greywulf said:
It'll make combat more feared - which is what I want - and might need some thought with regard to changing CRs - 25% of HP is harder to heal using these changes, after all.

Thoughts?

I'd say quite the opposite. Now my 20th level fighter can be healed 60 hp with just 3 level 0 spells, and the cure crit could put him nearly back in full.

I know what your getting at, and I agree the hp/healing thing just doesn't make sense, but using percentages will skew spell levels greaty.

Perhaps the spell could heal based on level, basically 2 hp per level of the person its cast on. That's a little more complicated then normal healing because it changes with different targets... but I think would help gets the results your looking for.
 

greywulf

First Post
Thanks for the feedback, I'm still thinking on this one and my brain hurts ;)

At 20th Level, your fighter would still need at least 10 0-Level heal spells to get from 0 HP back to max, and more likely 20 or more ......hmmmmm. I see what you mean though, it's still too high for a cantrip.

More brain juice needed on this one. Your idea of a fixed number of HP per recipient level makes sense. Kinda.

The feel I'm aiming for is the Heal spells are used sparingly, and only partially heal wounds at best unless it's Serious High Level magic. I want the players scrabbling around the place for healing herbs and non-magical solutions.

Wonder how Eberron with it's gritty feel handles healing..........hmmmmmmmmmmmm

(Lost in thought and the Rolemaster herb tables. Yummy!)
 
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Felikeries

First Post
add meta-healing

two spells of same type cast,costs two spells does x3,x4,x5 their recovery
but next spell -1d10 casting,recovery

at higher levels 3 spells for greater healing spells,same cause and effect,but this makes players effected less,and the roll for the one casting a crucial factor

5d4x1d4 or with skills,traite extra insured x3 2 spells to cast
any next spell if exceedes as you were saying a % at current level of hp
recovery,-1d10 cast,effect
 

greywulf

First Post
Felikeries said:
add meta-healing

ok, you partially lost me there. Do you mean that if someone receives multiple healing spells, they lose effectiveness? That could work. Would need more game mechanics, and wouldn't change the feeling that the low level character gets a great deal from a 1st level healing spell while a high level character doesn't. Maybe I just need to change the spell names.......

Or even worse, make being magically healed addictive. To the point where it's not unknown for people to deliverately harm themselves in order to receive the Healing magic. Would be a good explanation for all those Adventurers running around...hehehehehehe.

This would mean that healing is only used sparingly by any but the most foolhardy, and carries it's own risk. Hmmm. Doesn't do much for the game effect I'm trying to achieve, but it does open up a lot of game-world possibilities.

(Pictures a PC cleric waking through a crowed street to the sound of people calling "Heal me!" "Heal me!" and the sight of crazed folks deliberately lacerating their arms as she passes........)
 

Greybar

No Trouble at All
So with this system clerics at high levels will have a lot more spare spellpower available, while clerics at low levels will need to conserve all of their spellpower for healing and parties will need multiple days to heal from a tough battle.

Is that intentional? (I could see it being interesting)

john
 

greywulf

First Post
Greybar said:
So with this system clerics at high levels will have a lot more spare spellpower available, while clerics at low levels will need to conserve all of their spellpower for healing and parties will need multiple days to heal from a tough battle.

Is that intentional? (I could see it being interesting)

Not necessarily intentional, but certainly a side effect with potential.

In the campaign, I'd like clerics to move away from their healing role and more into a spiritual role anyways, so having them less of a walking hospital is a GoodThing IMHO.

It's almost tempting to dorp clerics altogether and give bards access to two clerical domains as an additional class feature. If they choose the Healing Domain, they can heal. then rename Bards to something more "holy" - like Preacher, for example, or Proclaimer, or whatever, and leave it at that.

Presto, magic healing is in limited supply ("bards" with healing domain only), clerics get to sway whole crowds with their oratory and hymns and the gameworld is a slightly more dangerous place.

Still doesn't fix that broken heal spell thingie though, and I'm digressing terribly.

Hmmmmmm.....

I'm going back to heal being a fixed number per recipient level.

Say:

Minor: 1HP, period
Light: 2HP/Level
Minor: 4HP/Level
Serious: 8HP/Level
Critical: 16HP/Level

So, Cure Serious Wounds cast on a 1st level guy with heal one major sword blow. Cast on a 10th level fighter, it'll heal 80HP, certainly enough to cure "Serious"damage.

That works.

Just to figure out those numbers - the ones above were picked from thin air with no rulesbooks nearby.

Help!
 

Al

First Post
Two problems with this approach:

1. Low levels just became a whole lot deadlier.
2. High levels just became a whole lot easier.

The fact that low level clerics can only heal d20% of hit points is a real killer for low level parties, and essentially makes healing worthless other than for stabilisation. 1 hp here and there is not really worth an action, much less a 1st level spell. More problematically, there are now real problems if a PC goes down. If a lucky crit takes the party wizard down to -8, it will take much longer to get him back on his feet- multiple sleep cycles. When many PCs start going down, it will be a nightmare restoring the party. Combat also became much more dangerous- without effective healing, it can go much more badly wrong for players, meaning TPKs.

For high level parties, this basically means that there nigh impossible to kill. Mass Cure Serious Wounds will practically restore the party to full HPs, and at around 15th level+ this will take up nearly every high level slot. Against undead, a targeted Empowered Cure Critical Wounds potentially takes off 150% of hit points, with a save for 75% of hit points- as bad as the old Harm, more or less, at exactly the same level. Following up with a Quickened Cure Moderate will take out any undead creature, even if both saves are successful, on decent rolls; Quickened Cure Serious will take out the undead on average rolls; Quickened Cure Critical on minimum rolls.

Whilst I appreciate the logic, I'd be vary of the balance. Healing is generally regarded to be mechanically fine as is; dramatic changes tend to mean dramatic problems.
 

scholz

First Post
I have puzzled about healing for some time. I am less concerned with the logic. D&D has lots of illogical consequences, but I am concerned with game balance and play. I dislike the healing spells because they limit adventuring to the amount of healing spells available. If you run out of healing spells, you have to stop (if you can) until the cleric recovers spells (often many hours). That creates artificial rules oriented story blocks.

I think one way to handle it is to take healing out of the spell system. One way would be to tie it to the skill. The Heal skill could for example, heal an amount of damage related to the character's ranks in healing, or a DC check. (You might have to keep track of individual wounds). But that way a high level fighter could have all of her wounds 'healed' by the healer, but it might take some time. A low level character shoudl have it done relatively easily.

If you think this is too powerful, you could make the healing a two stage process. The initial healing converts lethal damage to subdual damage. Even with a lot of subdual damage the character could still act, but after a few hours that damage would disappear.

You could make cure spells which temporary increase one's ranks in healing.

Heal Competence - Level 2 - Duration 1 rd/level
Caster may add her level to her ranks in healing for the duration of the spell up to 10 levels. Since healing is standard action, a character may not use the heal skill in the same round she casts this spell. This allows that character to use these ranks in healing, even if she has no ranks in the skill.

Heal Mastery - Level 4 - Duration 1rd/level
Caster may add her level to her ranks of healing for the duration of the spell (no maximum), and the caster may apply healing more than once to the same wound, although each application requires one full round.


What I like about this idea, is that one's ability to heal does not go away. But serious attacks might not be instantly healed. So if a person takes 30 points of damage from an attack, a healer with 5 ranks might only able to heal 5 of that. So they are not perfectly healed. It makes sense that a fighter without any magic aid would not be able to be instantly healed by a field surgeon. However, with the addition of the magics, the spell should work well.

This would also take a huge burden off the clerics, who otherwise are forced into a support role for the other party members. Without having to expend magic on healing routinely, the cleric can start using her other spells and participating more actively.

Any thoughts?
 

Stalker0

Legend
You are right, healing does but arbitrary limits on a person's adventuring, but they are much much less than the limits placed in other systems.

In some grittier systems, healing is very rare, and can only heal a fraction of wounds. Often times, a player needs weeks of bedrest to heal grave wounds.

While this is very realistic, it really sucks for the adventure. one combat, and your group is out for several weeks. While I think dnd isn't gritty enough at times (no location damage, poison and disease pretty weak, etc), it is very nice being able to get over and down with things quickly.

I think the set hp per level is a good idea just needs tweaking.

How about cure light: 2/hp per target level... up to 5 levels. mod up to 10 or something. It puts a bit of a cap on their healing. And then perhaps lower the numbers. Cure crit could heal 4/level instead of like 8.
 

Stalker0

Legend
You should know though that with either system you still have the model problem that a wizard can get 50% of his health back with a spell while the barb might only get 25%... and there's not a real good way to get around that one.
 

Impeesa

Explorer
Have Cure Light Wounds heal the target as though they'd had a full night's rest. Make Cure Critical heal the target as though they'd had a full week's bed rest or something. Scale the others to match. Maybe make it so that a successful heal check increases it just as it does for natural healing, making it more useful outside of battle.

Issues: Cure Light becomes Heal for anyone with fast healing.

--Impeesa--
 

Sqwonk

First Post
Stalker0 said:
In some grittier systems, healing is very rare, and can only heal a fraction of wounds. Often times, a player needs weeks of bedrest to heal grave wounds.

While this is very realistic, it really sucks for the adventure. one combat, and your group is out for several weeks. While I think dnd isn't gritty enough at times (no location damage, poison and disease pretty weak, etc), it is very nice being able to get over and down with things quickly.
Exactly. It also suck for the DM. The story flow gets interupted while the group sits around for days waiting for the sucking chest wound to heal.

I like the idea of the Heal skill being better and taking some "heat" off the cleric to be only healer. You probably want it to be a class skill for more of the classes.
 

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