AEG's Swashbuckling Adventures: Opinions Sought

[drnuncheon]

I've found a total of one review for this book on the web, and two threads on this group. Next to nothing on Usenet. Did it sink as soon as it sailed or is it just too early? The comments I did find are strangely polarized, as well:

Kaptain Kantrip says: "There are dozens and dozens of errors in this book (mostly failure to convert 7th Sea rules to d20, the whole point of the book!). Fighting styles mention weaknesses an opponent can exploit, then fail to provide rules for them. Many rules are improperly/incompletely converted between systems."

On the other hand, Jeff Ibach at DM's Haven says: "It's certain that AEG got a hold of that mythical document that is available to WotC employees, (you know that one that lets you know when you are creating a d20 mess that everyone else has to work extra hard to achieve?) as the feats herein are as trustworthy and solidly written as from the creators of d20 itself."

...two very different viewpoints. Is one of them wholly off-base or is the truth somewhere closer to the center?

I'm specifically looking for information on a) what would be useful in the book for campaigns set in a non-Theah world, and b) how much work I'd have to do to make such stuff fit, both in terms of removing/altering the setting and fixing the rules.

Thanks all.

J

 

[Blacksad]

...two very different viewpoints. Is one of them wholly off-base or is the truth somewhere closer to the center?

I'm specifically looking for information on a) what would be useful in the book for campaigns set in a non-Theah world, and b) how much work I'd have to do to make such stuff fit, both in terms of removing/altering the setting and fixing the rules.

Thanks all.

J

KK is exagerating (or he isn't but he is quite enthusiast when he express himself, it depends on your point of view )the editing problem, though there is quite a lot of errata, perhaps someone could ask the 7th sea responsable at AEG to know when they'll be released (the website isn't updated often, so you'll perhaps have to wait a long time).

[edit] and if you consider feat such as skill focus and alertness and the confusion with skill emphasis, the forge ring feat available at level 12 that does less than Craft wondrous item, or feat made for NPC such as Run and Endurance, the DM's Heaven comment loose a bit of its meaning. The Arcana feat (kind of backround feat) are what might be the least good, there is some flaw feat, that allow you to take a good backround feat, I'm not sure of the balance, they would be a lot of fun in my campaign, but that might not be the case in every one campaign[/edit]

to answer your question:

a) the book is specifically built to be used without Theah, some feat have a Theah descriptor meaning that they are tied to the setting. Think of it as OA for L5R, not as Rokugan for L5R.

b)you won't have to make any effort to remove the setting, though you'll need to house rule the errata or wait a bit, but those house rule aren't hard to make (i.e. as far as I can tell you do not have a feat chain with the first feat missing like great throw in OA), if you want minimal effort go to the official 7th sea mailling list and harass politely the authors for the errata

 

[dafrca]

To be honest, there is a problem with the editing. But from my point of view that does not change the fact that this book is one of the few I paid full price for and felt I got my money's worth.

This book is very much in the "crunchy" bits realm. Lots of feats, classes, and equipment. The overall feel hits close to the 7th sea original (note I said close).

If you want to play in the world of 7th Sea but want to use the d20 system this book is a great start.

dafrca

 

[Psion]

My review's up:

http://www.enworld.org/d20reviews.asp?sub=yes&where=active&reviewer=Psion&product=SWAD

Yeah, the editing is pretty bad. It may not be quite the hatchet job KK makes it out to be, but still... making references to feats and skills that DON'T EXIST in the d20 system SRD or the book is pretty bad.

As for the DM's Haven reviews: I think I have a pretty light touch when it comes to reviews, and even I consider Jeff's reviews fawnish.

I think most of the classes are pretty good... I would definitely use this as a class resource, but I would definitely NOT use it as a whole... there is entirely too much overlap to be justified.

 

[drnuncheon]

Yeah, the editing is pretty bad. It may not be quite the hatchet job KK makes it out to be, but still... making references to feats and skills that DON'T EXIST in the d20 system SRD or the book is pretty bad.

I think most of the classes are pretty good... I would definitely use this as a class resource, but I would definitely NOT use it as a whole... there is entirely too much overlap to be justified.

I had kind of wondered what the difference between a courtier and a noble was. It seemed to me like a lot of the base classes they added would have been better suited as prestige classes or 'class recipes', just from the names (highwayman, musketeer, etc)

When you say there are references to nonexistent feats and skills - are we talking stuff that's easy to figure out (they refer to Trapmaking rather than Craft: Traps) or is it completely mystifying? The former is sloppy but usable, the latter, well...

Didn't 7th Sea have its own magic system? Do they detail that at all in the book?

J

 

[Blacksad]

The River Boat Pilot is a profession feat, one of those with 4 ranks in profession as a prerequisite which grant 4 skills as class skills, but on his requirment line you have a feat that doesn't exist.

You have several new profession skills that aren't listed elsewhere: criminal, commander, priest, etc...

 

[shadoe]

The magic system will be detailed in a later book that comes out supposedly in a couple of months(not sure when exactly). Also some of the feats and prestiege class abilities might be a bit over powered for some campaigns, but work well in a low magic swashbuckling setting.

 

[Psion]

When you say there are references to nonexistent feats and skills - are we talking stuff that's easy to figure out (they refer to Trapmaking rather than Craft: Traps) or is it completely mystifying? The former is sloppy but usable, the latter, well...

There is a feat that gives you a bonus to Seduction checks and a feat that has ranks in Bull as a prerequisites. You could probably guess bluff in the latter case, but the former my refer to specific uses of charisma based skills.

There is also a feat that has something like "greater two weapon fighting" as a prerequisite. There is no such feat, but there is a "greater off hand fighting", and you can probably guess that is what they meant.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Want more Churchly Goodness

I thought the book brought a lot to any gamemaster interested in swashbuckling as a genre or early-modern europe as a setting. Anyone could easily take the Theah out of the picture but if you then held it up to the standards of either the fictional genre or the historical context there would be a lot missing. Specifically, the book makes a great deal out of the importance of a monotheistic hierarchical church to any sort of swashbuckling setting, and I agree, but then doesn't support it in any general way. From Aramis and Cardinal Rich. in the Three Musketteers to the characters in the Mission to actual Jesuits, swashbuckling needs priests. 7th Sea and this book recognized and dealt with this need in a very specific way which does not translate well into a more general genre interpretation. Specifically, there is no way to make a good priest using these rules. You are stuck with a nasty not too social inquisitor or a way too rational/spell casty alchemist who, again, is not too social or ideological. There are very few supportive prestige classes, and their feats system is cool but doesn't do enough to address the fact that most of the swashbuckling priest characters and actual priests are/were very different from their companions. This lack is particularly aggravating given the, I think justified but not carried far enough, subtle distinctions they draw between related character types in the genre such as courtiers and nobles.

My other complaint is that the rules do not do the OA thing of supporting related but distinct genres well enough. OA let you play samurai pulp, wuxia, and Hindu epics you could whatever you wanted and they would support you. Swashbuckling should support everything from traditional pirate swashbuckling to gothic murder mystery stories to Indiana Jones and Robin Hood movies to the Last of the Mohicans and Cortez. 7th Seas supports many of these. This book refuses to give you either the 7th Seas specific answers or any answers that might contradict them.

Since many of my complaints have to do with the lack of magic, the next book may solve all of my woes. With that, and the fact that somewhere out there someone has to be writing HTML that will post answers to my complaints on their website, in mind I would say that this book and a list of erratta are a fantastic start to any swashbuckling campaign. I particularly liked the simple and accurate firearms rules.