D&D 5E Aerial combat in 5e

[Nightfly]

I'm setting up to run a midair combat in my Dungeons of Drakkenheim game, and I'm struck at how little there is in the way of rules or even guidance in 5e. I've found some supplements that deal with Spelljammer combat, but that's not what I'm looking for. I need griffons vs. chimeras vs. gargoyles kind of stuff.

Anyone have a bright idea about where I might look? A third party supplement, or maybe an earlier edition? Or possibly even a different game? I'd like to somehow make it different and more interesting than a normal 2D fight.

 

[AlViking]

Others have suggested it but 2e &3.x had very solid flight rules. Going beyond that though id suggest using 3.x without perfect maneuverability outside of unusual flight methods that justify it. The 2e rules draw too heavily on some dog fighting wargame fundamentals and include a whole bunch of rather pointless stuff unless you plan to do a lot of dogfighting with WW2 style biplane fighters.∆

∆im not going to go check the book but I seem to recall things like vertical climb/dive speed and so on.

The reason I dropped the vertical climb and dive speed adjustments because of disagreements on how to apply it. If a character has the fly spell, should they be affected? It makes sense for a bird or a plane, but basic physics tells me that a dragon shouldn't be able to fly so there must be some magic or supernatural force involved as an example. Flying ships? Aren't those just using an advanced fly spell and on and on.

Anyway, if you want to use them you'll have to determine maneuverability.

Spoiler: The rules from 3.5

Tactical Aerial Movement
Minimum Forward Speed: creature has to land if it doesn't maintain a speed.
Hover: The ability to stay in one place while airborne.
Move Backward: The ability to move backward without turning
Reverse: A creature with good maneuverability uses up 5 feet of
its speed to start flying backward.
Turn: How much the creature can turn after covering the stated
distance.
Turn in Place: A creature with good or average maneuverability
can use some of its speed to turn in place.
Maximum Turn: How much the creature can turn in any one space.
Up Angle: The angle at which the creature can climb.
Up Speed: How fast the creature can climb.
Down Angle: The angle at which the creature can descend.
Down Speed: A flying creature can fly down at twice its normal
flying speed.
Between Down and Up: An average, poor, or clumsy flier must fly
level for a minimum distance after descending and before climbing.
Any flier can begin descending after a climb without an intervening
distance of level flight.

 

[Misanthrope Prime]

I recently played a paladin in 2024 5e and I quickly learned that the topple mastery is meta for aerial combat. Aerial combat should consist of dudes chucking tridents at flying monsters or jousting at each other with lances like in that old arcade game, because the aim is to force the enemy prone in midair and knock them out of the sky.

 

[tetrasodium]

The reason I dropped the vertical climb and dive speed adjustments because of disagreements on how to apply it. If a character has the fly spell, should they be affected? It makes sense for a bird or a plane, but basic physics tells me that a dragon shouldn't be able to fly so there must be some magic or supernatural force involved as an example. Flying ships? Aren't those just using an advanced fly spell and on and on.

Anyway, if you want to use them you'll have to determine maneuverability.

Spoiler: The rules from 3.5

Tactical Aerial Movement
Minimum Forward Speed: creature has to land if it doesn't maintain a speed.
Hover: The ability to stay in one place while airborne.
Move Backward: The ability to move backward without turning
Reverse: A creature with good maneuverability uses up 5 feet of
its speed to start flying backward.
Turn: How much the creature can turn after covering the stated
distance.
Turn in Place: A creature with good or average maneuverability
can use some of its speed to turn in place.
Maximum Turn: How much the creature can turn in any one space.
Up Angle: The angle at which the creature can climb.
Up Speed: How fast the creature can climb.
Down Angle: The angle at which the creature can descend.
Down Speed: A flying creature can fly down at twice its normal
flying speed.
Between Down and Up: An average, poor, or clumsy flier must fly
level for a minimum distance after descending and before climbing.
Any flier can begin descending after a climb without an intervening
distance of level flight.


View attachment 405268

Yea, I don't remember the vertical climb & dive coming up very often. Although turn radius and min forward speed came up almost any time something was flying and did a lot to differentiate flight from standing on the ground

 

[Stalker0]

Honestly one of the best things 5e did was toss all of those clunky 3e flyrules out the air lock. way way way too much complexity, you just want griffons going at it, you don't want a bunch of people with calculators out doing math.

KISS is the policy here.

 

[tetrasodium]

Honestly one of the best things 5e did was toss all of those clunky 3e flyrules out the air lock. way way way too much complexity, you just want griffons going at it, you don't want a bunch of people with calculators out doing math.

KISS is the policy here.

Hyperbole much? What math do you think there is in the 3.5 flight rules embedded above in post 21? After pointing out the "math", maybe try describing a situation that might require a calculator. Do you really think that s calculator is required to figure out things like half and double speed?

 

[Stalker0]

Hyperbole much? What math do you think there is in the 3.5 flight rules embedded above in post 21? After pointing out the "math", maybe try describing a situation that might require a calculator. Do you really think that s calculator is required to figure out things like half and double speed?

I have a dragon that wants to turn 90 degrees, move 100 feet while climbing up 60 feet. How far does the dragon have to move to do all that?

You have figure out how far forward the dragon has to go yo make the 90 degree turn, then backtrack + the 100 feet, then do Pythagorean math to add in the 60 foot climb.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I use an excel sheet= a, b, and c for x, y, and

That seems harder than doing it in your head.

 

[tetrasodium]

I have a dragon that wants to turn 90 degrees, move 100 feet while climbing up 60 feet. How far does the dragon have to move to do all that?

You have figure out how far forward the dragon has to go yo make the 90 degree turn, then backtrack + the 100 feet, then do Pythagorean math to add in the 60 foot climb.

That's not how movement works, it's done 5feet at a time with a 5 foot grid because the moving creature can't always know if something will cause a problem even if it's often (but not always) knowable before moving.

Did you not take geometry yet? 90 degrees is a right angle on the grid like this

Spoiler: 90°

45° would mean that the moving creature can / must choose make a diagonal as the tightest turn it could make on the grid. Usually that meant moving 5 feet at a diagonal then a second time to make a full 90° right left or vertical while a creature that can do a 90 could just make an immediate turn using superior mobility

 

[LordEntrails]

We've always just done it as 3D map combat. We don't worry about manueverability, or minimum speeds, or climb and dive rates. We just use the VTT ability for tracking height and calculating distances (with Pythagoras) and keep it simple. You could give highly maneuverable creates advantages on dodging, or poor ones disadvantage. But I wouldn't go beyond that.

 

[Xeviat]

That seems harder than doing it in your head.

I mean, it's 2 or 3 numbers you just type in an excel sheet whenever the question of "how far are they?". I have a hard enough time getting people to count 5-10-5-10 for diagonal movement, but luckily roll20 can do 2d distance calculations.