Aerial combat tactics and advice?

[RangerWickett]

My eagle has good maneuverability, so hover and wingover are redundant. I have the Saddleback (or Saddleborn) regional feat from Forgotten Realms, which lets me take 10 on ride checks, which at this point gets me a 27. I can also substitute a ride check for a Reflex save once per round for both my mount and myself, which, again, is 27. So I'm not worried about breath weapons, honestly, since a 27 should always save, and the mount has evasion.

A 27 ride check for mounted combat probably won't negate a dragon's attack, and so Mounted Combat will rarely come in handy, and bumping my mount's AC a few points really won't keep it from hitting. However, if I'm fighting ground-bound foes, Flyby Attack is useful so I can strafe.

What I want to do is have my mount ready an action to fly over the head of incoming dragons and gain altitude so that they can't turn to face me. The more I consider the logistics, though, the less possible I can see it being, since dragons move so damned fast.

Regarding net, the official ruling is that if the creature is entangled, it moves at half speed, which for a dragon means that in order to avoid stalling it has to either take a single move and gain no altitude, or take a double move and be able to gain altitude, but be unable to attack. Honestly, I think my best bet is to simply tanglefoot bag these bastards, which accomplishes the same thing as a net, with a greater range.

However, smart dragons still have the hover feat, and annoyingly, with hover it can still fly even if its slowed. Grr. I think the only option may be to give all the PCs tanglefoot bags. Six DC 15 Reflex saves, even with a +11 bonus (+9 after the first bag hits, which shouldn't be hard against touch AC of 9, or AC 7 after the first bag hits), will likely result in a failure, meaning a crash. Of course, this only works against Large or smaller dragons, but I think it's a good tactic.

I think I'll also stock up on alchemist's fire, in case the dragon decides to use shield and mage armor like the last one we fought did. About the same amount of damage as an arrow, with a much better chance to hit (but much shorter range). I wonder if I could just grab a fistful and throw several at once.

Hm. Time to read up on classic aerial combat tactics.

 

[RangerWickett]

There are probably other aerial combat sims out there that could also assist...

Seems we may have found a need for a 'Aerial Combat for Begginners' book

Hurray for the History Channel and shows on dogfighting. Of course, in this situation it's like having a blackhawk helicopter versus a Harrier jumpjet.

As for an 'aerial combat for beginners' book, WotC has a nice series of articles in their rules of the game for movement, with two sections on flying. I printed them and plan to bring them to the next game.

 

[RangerWickett]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_fight

I have come to the conclusion that the hover feat and the airspeed of dragons are two of my biggest complaints about D&D. Now I will never get involved in a dog-fight with a dragon.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

The problem isn't that dragon's are too fast, it's that everything else in the air is too slow. Look at the actual flying speed of most normal sized birds and convert that to a d20 movement rate, then look at the difference.

Depending on size dragons should fly faster than they actually do but suffer from a higher stall speed and lose some manueverability. But the speed of everything else should be higher too. More on line with early biplanes right around the WW1 period. Thing is that would make the battlespace needed positively enormous, big enought that you'd have to spread out a tablecloth on the floor to game it out.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Goodman's Aerial Adventure Guide?

This looks like a good book, but I am not keen on spending $30 {$20 for pdf} as I highly doubt I would use any of the setting material.. meaning of the many many pages I would end up using the 3 PrC's and however much of the rules. The reviews mentioned a lack of 3-D elements, altho the abstracted combat might work.

I would much prefer a $5 short pdf that compliled and cleaned up the aerial combat rules, with potential addition of an abstract system for the times when detailed sessions are not needed.

 

[iwatt]

SteelDraco has a nice notion. Instead of picking a combat-focused feat, pick one that improves your eagle's survivability, like Lightining Reflexes, Improved Toughness, Improved Natural Armor.

If you plan on outmaneuvering your foes, Wingover and Hover are neat feats, too.

What he said. Though Improve Natural Armor is the less cost effective of all.

I'd go for lightning reflexes, to better make use of his Evasion ability. And Cat's Grace the eagle every time

The maneuver feats are very useful if your DM is that strict with the mneuver rules.

 

[RangerWickett]

The problem isn't that dragon's are too fast, it's that everything else in the air is too slow. Look at the actual flying speed of most normal sized birds and convert that to a d20 movement rate, then look at the difference.

Depending on size dragons should fly faster than they actually do but suffer from a higher stall speed and lose some manueverability. But the speed of everything else should be higher too. More on line with early biplanes right around the WW1 period. Thing is that would make the battlespace needed positively enormous, big enought that you'd have to spread out a tablecloth on the floor to game it out.

Dragons can double move or charge at 45 miles per hour, or run at 91 miles per hour. That seems fast to me.

My dire eagle can double move at 15 miles an hour, or run at 30 miles an hour.

The DM has a 3-ft. battle mat, so I guess we'll just circle a lot. I do foresee us at some point zipping off the battle mat. Hmm.

 

[Klaus]

You might consider the following feats for the dire eagle (from Races of the Wild):

Aerial Superiority - +1 dodge bonus to AC while flying vs. non-flying or less-maneuverable-than-you foes.

Born Flyer - +4 on saves or checks to make a maneuver or stay aloft

Diving Charge - If you charge while flying and moves at least 30 feet and 10 feet down, you gain a bonus to damage based on your fly speed (+2d6 for your eagle). In addition, after you make this attack, you can choose to turn in place and be flying paralell to the ground.

Expeditious Dodge - If you move at least 40 feet in a round (almost a given when flying), you gain +2 dodge bonus to AC until your next turn.

Aerial Reflexes - Reflex bonus based on maneuverability (+3 for your eagle).

And for you, the rider, I'd recommend:

Plunging Shot - If your target is at least 30 feet lower than you, you deal +1d6 damage with a thrown or projectile weapon.

 

[Vraister]

A thing to remember is that dive attacks which are pretty much flighing charges deal double damage. Quite nice with fly-by attack and improved natural attack claw.

Vraister

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Vert_Hor spreadsheet... I found it on a board somewhen back, authored by Sebastian Varas, dont have his screen name. THe spread sheet converts movement into the 3d dimension based on angle of attack.

THe 'Flying Crib' word doc is a cheat sheet I made for one of my druid players who regularly used Summon for an eagle.

Just thought I would share