AFC, Spontaneous Domain + Radiant Servant of Pelor

[BlackSeed_Vash]

Greetings everyone. A fellow DM of mine asked me to throw together an "broken" healer to drop in his ridiculous Undead campaign. I've got him nearly complete but I've gotten hung up on one phrasing. I've spent a couple of hours searching both here and online in general, but can't find any discussions.

Spontaneous Domain Casting (Alternate Class Feature: Cleric PH2)
Replace: "... you do not gain the ability to spontaneously convert prepared spells into cure... spells"
Benefit: "You can [spontaneously] convert stored spell energy into the spells of one of your domains. Pick one... domain"

Supreme Healing (Prc: Complete Divine)
"When a radian servan of Pelor ... casts a domain spell from the Healing domain, that spell is affected as though by both the EmpowerSpell and the Maximixe Spell feats. The spell does not use up a higher-level slot."

If a person uses the above mentioned AFC and selects the Healing Domain, would you considered all spontaneously converted spells to be affected by the Supreme Healing class feature?

 

[Fesic]

I would say no. The domain spells are the bonus spells granted by your domain, however, converting a spell just means that it converts to a spell that is listed as a domain spell, not actually having it take that domain spell slot.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

It's not entirely clear whether the spell has to come from a domain slot. The description of a domain spell simply means "a spell gained from X domain," so it's possible that it wouldn't need to be in a domain slot, but it does need to be that spell.

Which leads to the question of whether the RSoP could have spontaneously cast, say, Cure Light Wounds as a normal cleric and gotten the bonus since it is a spell on the Healing domain after all.

It's a tough enough call that I'd say you should probably ask your DM to get a final ruling on what he feels works best in the campaign. Truth be told though, it wouldn't be overpowering to have spontaneous access to Supreme Healing like that since straight HP damage and healing have a tendency to not be the really big things everyone thinks they are.

 

[Empirate]

If 'a domain spell' just meant 'a spell that is on your domain spell list', Radiant Servants would cast all Cure X Wounds spells empowered/maximized, anytime, anywhere. I doubt that is the intention. Similarly to [MENTION=35736]Fesic[/MENTION], I'd read 'a domain spell' to mean 'a spell cast from a domain spell slot'.

 

[TwoSix]

I'd just roll with it unless he complains. He did say he wanted a "broken" healer, after all.

Armbands of Maximized Healing from MIC, BTW. Just in case the RSoP doesn't work out.

Oh, and if you're using Pathfinder, Life Oracles can do a lot of healing.

 

[nijineko]

azure talent + incarnum fusion + psionic meditation + high concentration skill + sangehirn prestige = heal every round, all day, all night.

 

[MarkB]

If 'a domain spell' just meant 'a spell that is on your domain spell list', Radiant Servants would cast all Cure X Wounds spells empowered/maximized, anytime, anywhere. I doubt that is the intention. Similarly to [MENTION=35736]Fesic[/MENTION], I'd read 'a domain spell' to mean 'a spell cast from a domain spell slot'.

Thirded.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Assuming the reading of "a domain spell is one cast from a domain slot" then what would happen to a character that had access to the domain spells but didn't have domain slots? For example, if a Favored Soul took a level in Ordained Champion, he would get access to all the War domain spells as per the Bonus Domain text, though they would still be used in normal slots because they're added to the class's spell list. Let's say the character chooses Power Word: Blind as one of the spells and can cast it however he sees fit. Is that spell now considered a domain spell? After all, it is from the War domain and not normally available to anyone but a sorc/wiz or a character with the War domain. Clearly the character is getting it from the domain since he can't cast sorc/wiz spells. And if it technically doesn't count as a domain spell because it's used in a non-domain slot, is it reasonable to leave it like that?

I guess we should look at the cleric rules:

Deity, Domains, and Domain Spells
A cleric’s deity influences his alignment, what magic he can perform, his values, and how others see him. A cleric chooses two domains from among those belonging to his deity. A cleric can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if his alignment matches that domain.
If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, he still selects two domains to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities. The restriction on alignment domains still applies.
Each domain gives the cleric access to a domain spell at each spell level he can cast, from 1st on up, as well as a granted power. The cleric gets the granted powers of both the domains selected.
With access to two domain spells at a given spell level, a cleric prepares one or the other each day in his domain spell slot. If a domain spell is not on the cleric spell list, a cleric can prepare it only in his domain spell slot.

That last line is of particular note. The cleric can only prepare domain spells that don't appear on the cleric list if they're done in the domain slots. Very straightforward of course. That raises the implication though that the character can prepare domain spells that are on the cleric's list in normal slots. Would it seem they're still domain spells even if not prepared in a domain slot? They are, after all, on the character's domain list.

Basically, RAI may be worthwhile, but one also needs to remember that what WotC intended isn't how the game turned out. A good choice for the game is going to be a good choice for the game, regardless of whether it's RAW, RAI, or whatever else.

Let's take a look at the implications of both empowering and maximizing spells from the Healing domain for free though. At 3rd level there's Cure Serious Wounds which is 3d8 +15 max. This competes with such spells as Fireball, which goes up to 10d6. 3d8 + 15 averages to 28.5 while 10d6 averages to 35. So it's definitely behind on a single target much less the multiple Fireball is capable of. Maximizing it makes it simply 24+15=39, so only 4 points ahead of the average single target fireball. Empowering it, assuming the +15 can't be multiplied since it's not a variable effect (dice roll), means it's doing 35.25 average damage now. Empowering + maximizing means it does an average of 59.25 damage. That's as a touch spell meaning you need an attack roll, and against a single target. On a single target it might have Fireball beat (keep in mind it's a touch spell and targets a better save for most creatures), but against even two or more Fireball is definitely going to win. In short, that's an excellent trade to make equal level spells sufficiently different to be different spells, so it doesn't seem at all overpowering to let at least that spell from the Healing domain be spontaneously cast as empowered and maximized. Heck, that fact actually makes it look worthwhile to cast such spells in the first place! So, as I mentioned earlier, while it might not have been their intent to let the caster spontaneously do that kind of thing, the empowered + maximized Healing domain spells are certainly not overpowered and should be totally okay for you to work with, even spontaneously. You're almost equaling a Sorcerer with that kind of damage, and since a Radiant Servant of Pelor is supposed to be specialized in going up against undead in the first place, it is completely fitting.

 

[Nezkrul]

favored souls don't cast domain spells, rather, they have a spells known list, and some of the spells just happen to appear on a domain list. A domain spell is a spell that a cleric casts from his bonus domain spell slot; that's all.

 

[MarkB]

That last line is of particular note.

Actually, I thought it was the second-to-last sentence that nailed it pretty thoroughly.

"With access to two domain spells at a given spell level, a cleric prepares one or the other each day in his domain spell slot."

The cleric has access to two domain spells, and he prepares one of them in his domain slot. What he does with his other slots is irrelevant - the domain spell is the one he prepares in his domain slot.