Afghanistan d20: overview

hong

WotC's bitch
Well, the infamous product from Holistic has finally reached the shores of sunny Austria tLDU. I saw it at the game shop, and more out of morbid fascination than anything else, I picked up a copy.

At first glance, it actually looks okay. There isn't much chest-thumping editorialising about the war on terror or anything related, thank ghu. It doesn't try to assign alignments to different factions, or say that you can only play western characters. It doesn't paint Islam as being a bloodthirsty religion that brainwashes people into wanting to destroy the west. It tries to play fair to both sides: US and allies, and Taliban (and allies). Overall I think it succeeds, which is commendable, given the nature of the subject matter.

On the rules-crunch side of things, there are a few quirks and warts here and there, but I haven't given it a thorough going-over yet. There's a big list of guns, which should be nice for the gun nuts out there. :) The stats for these don't seem right, though -- should a 9mm pistol really do 2d6 damage, which is more than a heavy crossbow? Still, there's other sources of firearm stats for d20 out there, and it shouldn't be hard to pick and choose the crunchy bits you want.

The prestige classes look interesting, although again I haven't gone over them in detail. The sniper looks extremely cool, and is something that could easily be fitted into a fantasy campaign, if the one-shot-one-kill thing is something you're after.

Finally, there's some discussion on where the situation in Afghanistan could lead, with plot seeds for an ongoing campaign. This section is pretty cursory, amounting to little more than a few paragraphs on various scenarios, and notes for how a DM could get their players into trouble. Useful, but nothing that you couldn't get out of the daily news or current affairs shows.

Overall, it seems like an interesting product. The question, I guess, is whether the situation in Afghanistan will continue to hold an interest for gamers. The scope of the product is very narrow, containing almost no mention of Iraq (for instance) or other locations where the "war on terror" might be fought. Still, it could be worth picking up if you're thinking of running a d20 Modern campaign that focuses on military ops.
 

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I don't know about all the rules, but yes, having fired some powerful crossbows, and owning a 9mm, I can honestly say that a 9mm is more powerful. Of course, that does depend on the load your shooting. They probably should've listed different style's of bullets. A jacketed hollow point can be very devestating, but then again, I would'nt like getting smacked in the chest with a crossbow bolt from a newer 200#+ crossbow. When I used the crossbow, it still seemed that the bolt dropped rapidly, not nearly as great as I first thought. Along that same line though, I have a buddy who can consistently shoot his 65# Matthews Solocam better then I can hit with any pistol. And seeing some deer hit by an arrow, I think that the bow is a very dangerous weapon, in the right hands. So sorry, I guess I shouldn't have even bothered responding. Range also would be factor though.

Oh well, sorry!:)
 

So there are no new modern genre core classes, correct?

Are there any equipment stats besides firearms, such as an RPG (rocket-propelled grenade) and heavy armor (Soviet and US armored vehicles)?

Player's tips and tactics on operating squad in hostile environment?
 

Ds Da Man said:
I don't know about all the rules, but yes, having fired some powerful crossbows, and owning a 9mm, I can honestly say that a 9mm is more powerful. Of course, that does depend on the load your shooting. They probably should've listed different style's of bullets. A jacketed hollow point can be very devestating, but then again, I would'nt like getting smacked in the chest with a crossbow bolt from a newer 200#+ crossbow. When I used the crossbow, it still seemed that the bolt dropped rapidly, not nearly as great as I first thought. Along that same line though, I have a buddy who can consistently shoot his 65# Matthews Solocam better then I can hit with any pistol. And seeing some deer hit by an arrow, I think that the bow is a very dangerous weapon, in the right hands. So sorry, I guess I shouldn't have even bothered responding. Range also would be factor though.

Oh well, sorry!:)

I'm not so sure about the 9mm vs crossbow. The 9mm has a lot less mass so the recoil will be tons worse making it seem more powerful. The bullet will go faster but with it's really light weight it's force aint that great.
 

side point it is really hard to resist going into politics on this one I was blazingly tempted to make some choice remarks on hongs 1st couple paragraphs, is there a way to flag this thread as something the mods should keep an eye on cause it could get heated or we just email them if it goes to heck.
 

Ranger REG said:
So there are no new modern genre core classes, correct?

Actually, there are:

Clergy
Combat Medic
Officer
Scout
Soldier (technically an "elite", not a regular grunt; there's a separate class for them)
Smuggler
Technician

Plus a couple of NPC classes: grunt (all the soldiers out there who aren't in the SAS/Green Berets/Rangers/whatever) and observer (looky-on guys from Medicins san Frontieres, Amnesty International, Associated Press, the United Nations, and other such useless organisations ;) ).

There are also a bunch of techie and social feats, some of which have great RP potential (Withering Insult, Hierophant, Rabble Rouse). Needless to say, you could use these feats in almost any setting.


Are there any equipment stats besides firearms, such as an RPG (rocket-propelled grenade) and heavy armor (Soviet and US armored vehicles)?

Player's tips and tactics on operating squad in hostile environment?

Yeah, there are stats on vehicles, but not much detail: speed, range, capacity, and not much else. Armour stats are reduced to a single number: "10 inches" for the M60, for instance. Assuming you even have numbers; the armour for the M1A1 is "classified". :p

The book cautions against turning your campaign into a tactical wargame, and I agree with this: the game should be about small-unit skirmishes and man-to-man actions, not full-on mechanised combat. Besides which, do you really want your entire party wiped out by a single AT mine or tank shell?

The more I look at it, the more I think the book is pretty good, but too narrow. For instance, they could turn it into a full-fledged sourcebook on military ops and special forces. Maybe when d20 Modern finally appears, Holistic could do something like that. They seem to have the talent on hand....
 

hong said:

Actually, there are:

Clergy
Combat Medic
Officer
Scout
Soldier (technically an "elite", not a regular grunt; there's a separate class for them)
Smuggler
Technician

Plus a couple of NPC classes: grunt (all the soldiers out there who aren't in the SAS/Green Berets/Rangers/whatever) and observer (looky-on guys from Medicins san Frontieres, Amnesty International, Associated Press, the United Nations, and other such useless organisations ;) ).
What if you want to play a "Jack Ryan"-like CIA field agent?

(Remember Michael Spann.)


There are also a bunch of techie and social feats, some of which have great RP potential (Withering Insult, Hierophant, Rabble Rouse). Needless to say, you could use these feats in almost any setting.
How about giving us the list of feats in that product?


Yeah, there are stats on vehicles, but not much detail: speed, range, capacity, and not much else. Armour stats are reduced to a single number: "10 inches" for the M60, for instance. Assuming you even have numbers; the armour for the M1A1 is "classified". :p
Hehehe. Well, it is understandable. Still, I would like a conjectural yet educated guess on the stat (add a disclaimer if you like).


The book cautions against turning your campaign into a tactical wargame, and I agree with this: the game should be about small-unit skirmishes and man-to-man actions, not full-on mechanised combat. Besides which, do you really want your entire party wiped out by a single AT mine or tank shell?
That's why I ask for tips on playing a squad using small-unit tactics, somewhere along the line of the old Commando supplement for Top Secret/S.I.

(To this day, I bash my head in disappointment over losing such an indispensable product.)


The more I look at it, the more I think the book is pretty good, but too narrow. For instance, they could turn it into a full-fledged sourcebook on military ops and special forces. Maybe when d20 Modern finally appears, Holistic could do something like that. They seem to have the talent on hand....
I do agree. If I can get over my initial reluctance I may pick up their product. I hope that Holistics will hit big with ultramodern military genre as AEG did with ultramodern spy genre, for d20.
 

Ranger REG said:

That's why I ask for tips on playing a squad using small-unit tactics, somewhere along the line of the old Commando supplement for Top Secret/S.I.

(To this day, I bash my head in disappointment over losing such an indispensable product.)

Well, I haven't got a spare copy, but if you e-mail me (webmaster@modus-operandi.co.uk) with what bits you're interested in, I'll try and scan the pages for you and e-mail it.
 

Hi-
Wow, it sounds as if Twilight 2000 is reborn again, in a small way of course but it would be nice to see a fully worked d20 version of the old GDW classic. Dont forget to include MP's as elite troops too...................; )



Scott
 

Shard O'Glase said:
side point it is really hard to resist going into politics on this one I was blazingly tempted to make some choice remarks on hongs 1st couple paragraphs, is there a way to flag this thread as something the mods should keep an eye on cause it could get heated or we just email them if it goes to heck.
Noted and passed on.

Of course, y'all know the rules, so play nice and take actual political discussions to Fighting Words in Nutkinland. :cool:
Heated debates about the book can also be had in Nutkinland, but in Fun & Games rather than Fighting Words. For that matter, Hong already has a thread about this book there. ;)
 

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