After game debriefing

[Bullgrit]

After a bad game session (TPK or other kind of big problem):

DMs: Do you ask the Players their thoughts, opinions, perceptions, reasons?

Players: Do you consider it a good idea or poor form for a DM to ask you why you choose particular actions, paths, decisions?


Is there a way for a DM to ask the Players, "Why did you do X?" without it sounded like, "What the hell were you idiots thinking?"?


Say, for example, the adventure into the Tomb of Horrors came to an early end because everyone jumped into the green devil's mouth in the first hall (that's the sphere of annihilation, right?).

The DM might wonder:
- Was there something in the way I described the green devil that made them think jumping in was a good idea?

- Did I somehow lead them to that act?

- Was the problem in the adventure design or in how I ran the adventure?

- Should I have stopped them with an out-of-game warning?

- Did they all do it because they were ready to try a different campaign, but they don't want to tell me?

- Or did they do it because they are all just hopelessly insane?

How can a DM get feedback on the game after a traumatic catastrophy?

Bullgrit

 

[Jack99]

I think the key is to have a good relationship with your players (but also an understanding of them), so that you can talk about these things without pissing off anybody. Myself, I evaluate just about every evening, be it good or bad, although the evaluation does not always take place at the table before people leave, but instead via email or phone between the sessions. Evaluating often also helps talking about the really bad nights (TPK's), since the players are used to doing it.

 

[Cadfan]

I just admit that the night didn't go well (they already know this, I might as well admit it), and ask them whether they have any comments. Once I let them say their piece, I ask any specific questions I might have.

I think its important to allow the players to speak first. It helps reduce the feeling that you're accusing them of sucking at D&D.

 

[Piratecat]

I have a mini debriefing after almost every game. As people leave the game room and make their way downstairs, we usually spend a few minutes discussing what went well and what didn't. I'm finding the feedback really useful.

I also try to do an email feedback form once a year. I like to list a few things and ask if they want more or less of:

- combat
- environmental features in combat
- skill challenges
- puzzles and traps
- mysteries
- roleplaying
- plot tied to your character background
- dungeon adventures
- wilderness adventures
- urban adventures

I'll also ask them to suggest a plot hook for another player's character, and whether combat or the game seems slow.

 

[Ktulu]

I always do (I also have a forum on our campaign site dedicated to "what you thought of the game".

It's incredibly hard to be critical to friends, so I provide the forum so people can say their peace without people butting-in and getting angry.

However, despite that, I usually get the same answers "Yeah, it was a good game, enjoyed, blah blah" even when I can tell it wasn't. On the flip-side of that, I know my players well enough to tell if they enjoyed it or not, and can poke/prod enough to get some decent responses.

 

[Jack7]

No matter how a game went we always brief prior to the game, and debrief after the game, unless there are time constraints preventing it. The briefing is almost always review of what happened last time, though sometimes it is about upcoming objectives, the debriefing is more of a general scenario/mission/adventure discussion, and lesson's learned exploration.

Also because my players usually operate as part of a team in-game working for the emperor and sometimes the church, so the characters usually have mission briefings as well.

But regardless of whether it is a player briefing or debriefing, or an in-game character briefing/debriefing, we tend to handle it like a military or mission briefing rather than a, "gee, why in the hell would you do that?" We handle it neutrally and sometimes I will question certain actions or situations but I try to never do so as if I am either favoring or disfavoring the action they took. If they ask for suggestions I may or may not give some or I may say, "research it for yourselves if you don't know or if you think there is a better way of doing that, or come up with your own ideas."

We just discuss what actually happened and I leave it up to the players to discuss among themselves what lessons they learned or what they think the things discussed meant.

However it has been my personal experience that good briefings/debriefings are as invaluable to the game as to real life. Because they allow people to remain focused upon mission objectives, they remind people of old and yet vital information they need to review, they expose new information, they allow for situational reassessment and reanalysis, and they prevent mistakes rather than allow for them through oversight, ignorance, or forgetfulness. My personal advice is do not wait until some catastrophe has struck either your situation or that of your players. Instead brief and debrief often and well, and encourage your players to always undertake their own review of lessons learned. After all that is their job.

It is always better to be prepared, than to make repairs.

I also try to do an email feedback form once a year. I like to list a few things and ask if they want more or less of:

- combat
- environmental features in combat
- skill challenges
- puzzles and traps
- mysteries
- roleplaying
- plot tied to your character background
- dungeon adventures
- wilderness adventures
- urban adventures

I'll also ask them to suggest a plot hook for another player's character

I completely agree.

 

[Bullgrit]

Thanks for the replies.

How would you approach this situation:

Say, for example, the adventure into the Tomb of Horrors came to an early end because everyone jumped into the green devil's mouth in the first hall (that's the sphere of annihilation, right?).

The DM might wonder:
- Was there something in the way I described the green devil that made them think jumping in was a good idea?

- Did I somehow lead them to that act?

- Was the problem in the adventure design or in how I ran the adventure?

- Should I have stopped them with an out-of-game warning?

- Did they all do it because they were ready to try a different campaign, but they don't want to tell me?

- Or did they do it because they are all just hopelessly insane?

How do you ask for specific answers without sounding judgemental or critical?

Bullgrit

 

[Cadfan]

Thanks for the replies.

How would you approach this situation:
<snip>
How do you ask for specific answers without sounding judgemental or critical?

Bullgrit

I already know that my players aren't randomly crazy, and that they don't intentionally suicide their characters. So apparently something in the way that I communicated with them, or something about their preconceptions about D&D, convinced them that jumping into the sphere was a good idea.

So I'd just ask them why they jumped into the sphere.

 

[Jack7]

So I'd just ask them why they jumped into the sphere.

Simple often works.

You know anyone in an unfamiliar situation or environment can really screw up unintentionally, and sometimes pack mentality prevails when it shouldn't.

That's a real dangerous dungeon though, which in many ways is just designed to kill. However there are a few actions you could encourage in your players.

I encourage my players to develop Tactical and Exploration Ready Actions. These are simply sheets with prepared actions in case such and such happens. If X occurs then they do Y.

Say half the party is reduced to 25% of hit points or less (assuming you use hit points) what do they then do? Continue the fight, beat a strategic retreat, seek to parley, allow some people to be captured for later rescue and have the others escape for tactical reasons, etc? That way they have some idea of how to react to dangerous situations gone bad.

An Exploration Ready Sheet suggests actions they can take towards an unfamiliar environment or encounter. Does one party member jump through the devil's mouth and then agree to return within ten minutes? If he doesn't return then what does this mean for the others?

What about magical probes, like sending a magical eye through the portal, or sending an inanimate object?

I encourage my players to sit down and using prior expense generate "Action and Encounter Ideas" and then to write them down and codify them so that they have a list of prepared actions and reactions to both dangerous and unfamiliar situations. Ready Action and Reaction sheets save a lot of time, confusion, and misapplication of effort. They don't have to follow those regenerated ideas but at least they have action idea resources and training already available to them which lessen the chances of making future mistakes. After all you can't correct prior death due to mistake but you can prevent future death by reducing mistakes.

As for you, simply do your best, or even ask your players, if they think that in some way you were deficient in your job. They may tell you the truth, or at least the truth from their point of view, which may or may not be accurate. But in any case you can learn something. And of course you must be scrupulously honest in assessing your own actions to create good criticisms of your own behavior in case something needs to be changed. Then again don't do their job for them or you'll end up being more mommy than DM. It is their job to be clever in dangerous and unknown situations, not yours. Sometimes an exploding cigar is just an exploding cigar and it's the fault of the guy who lights it up for not asking why Fidel Castro suddenly wants to vacate the room right before you light up. Your players should just always assume dangerous and unknown things might just suggest dangerous and unknown things. If I were walking along and saw a huge, grinning, devil's mouth of a gateway I might just think that implied something. That somebody did that for a reason. So you can't do their thinking for them. You cab however encourage them to be well-prepared, and maybe to look hard before they leap.

But as far as TOH is concerned, it's an intentionally rough piece of work. Probably my very favorite store bought module but a rough piece of work. Even good and powerful characters are likely gonna die. However there will be a lot less dying if they are well prepared. Good preparation reduces a lot of unnecessary misfortune, suffering, and foolish miscalculation.

But you know preparation is also their job. It's something they should naturally want to do as a survival mechanism.
As far as I'm concerned it isn't so much a question of what is the fault point, as it is of avoiding the fault point.
Unless of course as you implied they simply wanted to die. And there is not a lot you can do about that except ask them, "Do you wanna replay this or move onto something else." They'll probably tell you exactly who they feel and you can deduce the reason from there.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

I'll also ask them to suggest a plot hook for another player's character...

That's a fantastic idea! We often have homework assignments for NPCs, stories, etc. from our character's background but have never done it for another character. That's brilliant!

How would you approach this situation:How do you ask for specific answers without sounding judgemental or critical?

I would ask them directly but focus the blame on me first. "I didn't like
how that TPK went down, what could I have done better for it?"

I think that would get them talking about the scenario, let you know if there was anything you could have done better and since they're on the subject delve into what they could have done better as well. You'd get to analyze it but with the focus of helping you, they wouldn't feel attacked.