After my players tried to break it, we discovered that the new half-race rules are hilarious and terrible.

UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
does no one get how abusable that solution would be you would end up with nothing but min-maxed hybrids?
Really?
I did not propose that there should be a free pick and mix from the traits of both ancestor lineages but that there be a trait(s) that are specifically siloed off that are roughly equivalent for all races.

For example a Half Elf (mostly human) from the playtest material
Racial Traits
Resourceful
Skillful
versatile
(from elf) Keen Senses

Or the opposite mostly elf
Darkvision
Elven Lineage
Fey Ancestry
Keen Senses
Trance
(From Human) Skillful

But i would prefer if they actually built it properly with a actual sharable traits silo or take @darjr idea of a racial ancestry feat for just this purpose.
 

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D1Tremere

Adventurer
I do think there may be issues. I find that a persistent reskin often drifts into a player asking for abilities that the “skin” has and not the thing reskinned.

For example a dragon born reskin of a dwarf player may at some point argue that because the dragon born has scales it’d convert some bonus in situations that mechanicly it shouldn’t, because scales are not skin. At that point you as DM can let it be which begins the creep or stop it which kinda sucks.
I think the way to avoid this is the same way to avoid the OPs stated discoveries, which is to not frame everything in such a mechanical way in the first place.
We aren't talking about reskinning a dwarf, we are talking about the unique circumstances of nature and nurture in a magical universe that led to Frank, who's father was a Dwarf and mother was an Owlin. Description Options: Player decides Frank looks like a Dwarf but benefits from Owlin unique physiology. He has feathers on his arms that unfurl when he flies, but looks like skin otherwise. Perhaps his bones are lighter than normal as well. Or, perhaps the residual magic that allows Owlin to to fly despite the fact that earth based physics would require an incredible large wingspan for any creature of human size to fly, also endow Frank with the ability to fly despite not having the traditional feathers. Or, maybe Frank just made a sturdy leather pair of wings based on his mothers instructions that allow him the same flying as feathers?
This is the Role Playing instead of Roll Playing argument reskinned.
 





Warpiglet-7

Cry havoc! And let slip the pigs of war!
This is why we need DMs.

The answer to you your flatulence/firebreath weapon after your dwarf gets drunk and lights it is “no.”

Or you rolled a ‘1’ and don’t want to know the outcome.

Yes the rules need to be good guardrails but we need empowered DMs not matter the rules set.
 


darjr

I crit!
This is why we need DMs.

The answer to you your flatulence/firebreath weapon after your dwarf gets drunk and lights it is “no.”

Or you rolled a ‘1’ and don’t want to know the outcome.

Yes the rules need to be good guardrails but we need empowered DMs not matter the rules set.
Ah. Note to self leave the stinker long arm dwarf at home when warpiglet DMs.
 



Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
In Monsters of the Multiverse, a lot of races had some extra text in their creature type line specifying that they count as a certain race. For example, duergar’s type line says “You are a Humanoid. You are also considered a dwarf for any prerequisite or effect that requires you to be a dwarf.” I could see that being a thing for half-races.
 

Yaarel

Mind Mage
In Monsters of the Multiverse, a lot of races had some extra text in their creature type line specifying that they count as a certain race. For example, duergar’s type line says “You are a Humanoid. You are also considered a dwarf for any prerequisite or effect that requires you to be a dwarf.” I could see that being a thing for half-races.
I like the concept.

Because the point of feats is customization, I dont want feats to be gated by race prereqs. Are there other meaningful situations where, for example, a duergar qualifies as a dwarf?
 

Corinnguard

Adventurer
I like the concept.

Because the point of feats is customization, I dont want feats to be gated by race prereqs. Are there other meaningful situations where, for example, a duergar qualifies as a dwarf?
In A5e, a Duergar would have the Dwarven heritage and the Deep Dwarf culture. So in terms of heritage, they're still very much a Dwarf. But they're culturally distinct from other Dwarves.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I like the concept.

Because the point of feats is customization, I dont want feats to be gated by race prereqs. Are there other meaningful situations where, for example, a duergar qualifies as a dwarf?
I think feat prerequisites are the only place where it matters in 5e currently. There might be like an odd magic item that requires attunement by a dwarf or something, I guess. Eladrin counting as elves makes them immune to ghoul paralysis. But generally I don’t think there are many effects that care about race that precisely, yet.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
Pick rules for a race, and then just reskin it as another race.
I'm not trying to crap on the thread, but isn't this what everyone has always done? or is it just me?

The first "genasi" that I played, long before there was ever rules for such a thing, was a tiefling that had been reflavored to have an elemental parent instead of a fiendish one. (I didn't want demonic overtones for that character.) Years later, when Wizards of the Coast released the actual Genasi, I was like....meh, no thanks, I'll keep the reskinned tiefling.

More recently, one of my players wanted to play an all-new character race of their own design, based on a Magic: the Gathering card (essentially a blend of elf and fairy traits.) So we picked the fairy race from "Wild Beyond the Witchlight," and reskinned it as an elf (medium size, humanoid, etc.)

Even back in BECM, I would reskin the Dwarves to be "gnomes," since there wasn't really much of an appreciable difference between the two...at least, not as far as the game mechanics were concerned. And I remember making a "half-angel" in BECM (there was no such thing as an aasimar back then) by letting the player roll up an Elf, but pick their spells from the Cleric list.

Or maybe I've just been doing it wrong all these years decades.
 
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Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
one flaw with that it will be used to min-maxing beyond the levels even the godhead intended.
Please, do tell how by picking the mechanics that exactly match what they could get otherwise but being able to change the fluff, you can mix-max "beyond the levels even the godhead intended".

I really want to know how the exact same mechanics are now ridiculously min-max when you can change the fluff.
 

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